Nicky Mondellini

Episode Summary

This week I have the pleasure of introducing not one, but two experts from Texas, who are an important part of the audio production world, Ray Schilens and Bruce Abbott, co-owners of Radio Lounge USA, a full-service audio production company that specializes in podcasts, voiceover, broadcasting, TV, radio and live events, among other things. As Ray puts it, “We were doing podcasting before it was even called podcasting”.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Alan Villatoro: This is La Pizarra, a place where we explore creative minds in the entertainment industry on both sides of the mic and the camera. Here is your host, Nicky Mondellini.
Nicky Mondellin…: Welcome to another episode of La Pizarra. My name is Nicky Mondellini and we are still going on with season six. And today, I’m very, very excited because I’m going to be talking to a couple of dear friends and colleagues. And we have collaborated over the years. We’re all in the sweetest town in Texas, as Ray would say, which is Sugar Land, Texas. And well, they are experts on both sides of the camera and the mic. Their names are Ray Schilens and Bruce Abbott, and they are co-owners of Radio Lounge USA, a full-service audio production company that specializes in podcasts, voiceover, and anything of audio production for broadcasting, TV and radio and live events and many other things.
So I am very happy to be doing this interview also because Ray was one of the first people that actually told me or suggested that I do a podcast. And I had the pleasure of being a guest on their podcast, Feel the Ad Love! which I’m going to link to on the show notes. So I’m very happy to bring this full circle now and have them on the show. So without further ado, we will start this wonderful interview.
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As president and partner of Radio Lounge, Ray’s commitment to quality media has earned him much respect by his contemporaries. And overseeing all facets of broadcast production facility and organizational creative think tank, Ray has vast experience in various areas of advertising, marketing and business leadership. Ray’s extensive background includes broadcast programming and creative services management in Detroit, Houston, and Miami-Fort Lauderdale. His combination of creativity, dedication to quality, which I can attest to, and his strength in client relationships has driven his successful career. Ray is currently the host of Ad Speaks Houston, the podcast and radio program that promotes the programs and people behind the American Ad Federation in Houston. Ray is also a board member of the AAF Houston, and he is also the co-host of Feel the Ad Love! And if that wasn’t enough, Ray is also a licensed pilot. And now we will talk about Bruce.
Bruce Abbott has provided all types of voiceovers and narration for the past 20 years for a lot of big brand companies like HP, so Hewlett-Packard, Pearson Education, Verizon, Nickelodeon, Chevron, Google, Schlumberger, CBS Television and Radio, and hundreds more. And he’s also the co-owner of Radio Lounge, as I mentioned before. And well, Radio Lounge is, like I said, it’s a full production and sound design company. And they provide everything from coaching and production to high-end voiceover demos as well, and they do a phenomenal job. And he is the co-host of Feel the Ad Love! podcast. Now, we will talk about other special things and little secrets that you guys maybe haven’t heard about from Bruce and Ray, but for now I’m just going to give them a huge welcome. And guys, thank you so much for being guests on La Pizarra. I’m so happy you’re joining me today.
Ray Schilens: It’s wonderful. And I’m so happy for you that you’re doing this as well and doing it well. Well, you do everything over the top great.
Nicky Mondellin…: Thank you so much.
Ray Schilens: But again, I think it’s kind of comical. We’re people with microphones hanging over our heads, sitting in phone booths, talking to each other from around the country.
Nicky Mondellin…: I think it’s a wonderful thing.
Ray Schilens: Yeah, you’re doing great at this, Nicky. This is good.
Nicky Mondellin…: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. I mean, you have been one of my mentors and so I’m kind of nervous. I’m like, “Oh, I have to be perfect today,” but if I’m not-
Ray Schilens: No, you don’t. No, let’s not be perfect today. Okay? Let’s just be us. Don’t you think, Bruce? I think we should be you and me and Nicky.
Bruce Abbott: You know? That’s all we can be.
Nicky Mondellin…: Just relax. Well, I’m going to jump in with a few-
Ray Schilens: Go ahead. Go ahead, Nicky.
Nicky Mondellin…: Okay. Sorry for interrupting. I’m just going to jump ahead with a few questions because I have many things that I want to ask you and others that you will obviously just talk about on your own, which is amazing. Well, the first thing is, Ray, as a licensed pilot, that you’ve been flying all over, trying to find the perfect burger joint, what have you found? I want to know that because we live in the same town and so…
Ray Schilens: Oh, there are so many places to go. And it’s funny you mentioned that. I’m in the process of buying an airplane. And some people… You would say, wow, but they’re not as expensive as we think they are. And the freedom of flight is so amazing. It’s like you’re in a different place. And especially on a day like today here in Houston, we have blue skies. It’s called [inaudible 00:07:27] clear invisibility. That’s the feeling. And it takes you to a different place. And I’m sure that everybody has something that they do, I know Bruce loves the ocean, when you’re there, you’re there and you’re nowhere else.
And that’s the cool part about flying. Also, sharing the love of aviation is a fun thing too, as well. I was involved with the civil air patrol for many years and just about to get back involved here in Sugar Land with them as well. But again, sharing that passion and sharing all of the cool vibes that go along with that. Bruce’s son Shane has a love and an interest in that area as well. And he’s now part of civil air patrol.
Bruce Abbott: Oh yeah. He’s part of the civil air patrol here in this [inaudible 00:08:10] airport. Yeah.
Nicky Mondellin…: That’s amazing.
Ray Schilens: So flight is wonderful. It was a gift. My wife, back in the seventies, when I got my license, she goes, “You better do this now because you won’t be able to later. We’ll be too busy.” And she was right. So because of her, I am a pilot. By the way, we’re recording this one day prior to my 51st wedding anniversary. That’s a factoid.
Nicky Mondellin…: Congratulations. Wow.
Ray Schilens: I know. So we’re gone 51 years now, the 26th.
Nicky Mondellin…: Oh, wow. Really cool. That is amazing.
Ray Schilens: So a lot of great things. And you’ve met Catherine before and you know what an incredible person she is.
Nicky Mondellin…: She’s a lovely, lovely lady. Yes. You guys have an amazing family, wonderful kids and grandkids. So yes. Yeah.
Ray Schilens: An inspiration, always a cheerleader, always a supporter, and always…
Nicky Mondellin…: Have you taken her on an airplane? I mean, does she like to fly as well? Yeah?
Ray Schilens: Not as much as I do, but there again, that’s an indicator of her selfless demeanor. She makes sure that other people have the opportunity to do things that they enjoy. So I think that’s part of the formula of longevity, 51 years. You look out for the other person and make sure they’re [inaudible 00:09:30]
Nicky Mondellin…: That is amazing.
Ray Schilens: So that’s the marriage part of Nicky’s podcast today.
Bruce Abbott: [inaudible 00:09:40]
Ray Schilens: That’s a real long answer to the airplane question.
Bruce Abbott: Welcome to marriage and family counseling.
Ray Schilens: Well, you know what’s funny about counseling, and talking about voice coaching and everything? It really is not here, it’s up here. And what we find is the people that come to Radio Lounge for voice coaching, it’s more of a psychology thing than anything else. Of course, we teach the business of voiceover and craft, the attributes that lead to being a successful voice actor. More importantly, and every time it happens over and over and over again, it’s like, I feel so good about myself. I realize that I can do something that I didn’t think I could do. So it’s more in the head than any place else.
Nicky Mondellin…: I agree. I totally agree. And you produce amazing demos. And talking about that, and in the process of that, because I know people always look for a good demo producer and if they have them already, then they want to update them or people who are just starting out. And what things do you recommend, or things that you have seen that are important to put in demos now that maybe you didn’t see a few years ago?
Ray Schilens: Bruce, do you want me to take this or do you want to take this?
Bruce Abbott: Well, I think that yes, you have to be aware of the current trends. Obviously, voice acting and delivery is very different now than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. I mean, definitely, just look at how the styles have changed. But I think also, you look at the trends outside of voiceover where things like authenticity, transparency. When you’re an actor, whether you’re on camera or you are behind a microphone, yes, you can take on other characters, if that’s the word I’m looking for. But when it comes down to it, you’re yourself. That’s all you can be.
I do a lot of work in corporate and e-learning and I just come at it with the approach of, I’m me. I’m not somebody else. I’m not whatever. So I am that person that is sitting at the computer or maybe the front of the room, teaching this person who is taking, let’s say, an e-learning course that their job requires it or they’re taking it to achieve some upgrade in their job or something like that. And the demos, they reflect that too, is that when you pull up a demo, you don’t necessarily want to have the demo producer’s stamp on it. You want that to be just the vehicle. All we’re doing is providing the vehicle for the best of the best and that person’s authenticity to stand out. And I think that’s where, before they really had to be glorious and wonderful. I mean, they still have to be great, don’t get me wrong. You can’t be stumbling and mumbling. You have to [inaudible 00:13:05] But it’s that whole idea of it’s natural now, it’s more organic.
Nicky Mondellin…: I totally agree. I definitely think trends have become so much more that whenever you see the specs for any auditions coming in, they push for that so much more than ever before. Before, it used to be, oh yes, we just want it to be conversational. That’s not a word that is being used as much right now. They just want authenticity. They do not want it to sound like an announcer.
Ray Schilens: An announcer, yeah. Authenticity is connectivity as well. And as far as the individualistic approach to demos. And we’ve seen this by some of our competitors, they’ll allow the talent to pick the content, which is totally wrong. How we approach both coaching and both the demo production is it’s almost like going to your favorite store and you look on the rack and you go, “Huh? I wonder what that would look like on me,” or whatever. All of the things that we use are a good fit for the voice actor. It has to be that way. You have to fit the brand. You have to fit the style delivery and such. And we do that through the process of coaching, and what we do, it’s a process of fine tuning and discovering, fine tune, discover, fine tune, discover. And then launch with a demo as a kind of a graduation exercise. So the content has to fit the voice actor and you can’t make a voice actor be somebody who they are not.
Many of these voice actors want to be anime people as well. It’s like, okay, can you really, really, really do that? And we find sometimes that, no, you can’t do that. Or you need to go and get further training, possibly some acting and such and maybe some improv or something to kind of build that. But for the most part, the demo, the process of the coaching and the demo is a good fit. When it’s done, it fits the person and it looks good and feels good on them, because everybody, and you guys know this, we are all very specific in our DNA in terms of who we are and what we can do. And as soon as we realize that and understand that we can operate very well in that circle.
Nicky Mondellin…: And has it happened to you guys? Sorry to interrupt, Bruce. But has it happened to you that some people that come to you to look for a demo, they want a demo produced in a genre that, as you say, Ray, it probably doesn’t fit them well? Or people that really want to jump into it without having to go through the coaching process. They just want to speed things up. And we know that in the business, sadly, there’s companies that are what we call demo mills. But I know that with you guys, integrity and attention to detail and quality comes first and then you don’t end up producing something for someone who is not ready for it. And I think that part of coaching and getting to know the voice actor before you jump into the demo is so, so important.
Ray Schilens: Yes, it is.
Bruce Abbott: That’s the thing, is it really depends on the voice actor. It depends on where they are in their career. We had the pleasure of doing a demo of yours, Nicky, and that was one where you came to us, you knew exactly what you wanted. You are at a certain status of voice acting. So at that point, it’s getting your vision, and matched with our expertise and kind of putting it all together. At that point, we’re not having to train you in what you were about to do. You knew what you wanted, you knew exactly, and it was just a matching of the demos. And so what we have in certain situations, there’s times where we’ve said, No, we’re not going to do that. We’re not going go and just take your money for it.”
Because we know that, in other words, there’s the demo and then there’s everything after the demo. And the demo is just part of your calling card, it’s like your business card. And so we don’t want to put something out there that you’re not going to be able to take and effectively get work and have success with that. We do coaching in a lot of different areas, but there’s some areas that we don’t. And so there are some areas where we will say, “Hey, maybe look, at here are some of our favorite coaches in this particular genre.”
And so we’ll kind of guide them if we need to. But ultimately, they have to feel like, okay, well, what I got was of value. And we have to be able to, just with integrity, say, hey, we brought out the best in you. Sometimes that takes a while of training and sometimes it’s not. Sometimes we come in and we get some pros that come in and we just work together and bam, I mean, they just knock it out of the park. It’s awesome. So it varies, but that’s the key, as you said, it’s knowing the talent. It’s knowing that person. It’s the psychology of it.
Ray Schilens: Everything that we do bears our name. Therefore, if we do a demo for you, it’s got our name on it or our fingerprints and we need to make sure that that demo is good. Let me give you a couple of examples of folks. There was a gentleman who came in who was high on the autism scale, but I wanted to see what we can do and make that happen. I had to think about that for a while, think about the best way to approach that. And you know what we got there? And it was a big victory for him and for us as well. Another gentleman came in who he opened his mouth and he was Morgan Freeman. And it was like he didn’t try, he opened his mouth and it was Morgan Freeman.
But the problem is, he had trouble reading. So instead of doing voice coaching, we did reading lessons and got him to a more comfortable place so that when he was in the booth, he could actually perform and do that. So you approach things from all different ways. And there are some people that we say, go get that improv, go get that acting before we can do something. There are also, and I’ll equate this to golf, if you golf, you develop bad habits. If you’re a disc jockey, you’ve developed bad habits. So what we have to do is we have to break those bad habits, and that does not happen overnight. And some people are resistant to change with those bad habits and don’t really get that.
But that’s a process as well. So there are so many little things that we do that are so important. But going back to what I said before, again, whoever comes through Radio Lounge as a coaching student or a demo client, they are wearing our name and we have to make sure that what we’ve done is make them feel good, that we’ve made them accomplish something that they may not have thought of, or given them something that is worth worthy of their talent. So that’s really important. We’re the opposite end of the demo mill and that’s a good thing.
Bruce Abbott: And just to add on, tag onto the end of that, we also believe in, when we do these demos, we’re obviously, we’re helping, we’re guiding the talent in the recording process. We don’t do tricks. We don’t do production tricks, the tactics to make somebody sound different than who they are. We want to present something that if that person goes into a session, they can replicate that live with a client. And we’ve been on both sides of the glass for many years. We’ve been in the booth, we’ve been on the production side.
We have been in some uncomfortable recording situations where we’ve got clients and an ad agency behind us. We’ve got a talent in the booth and they cannot replicate a specific read that they were hired to replicate.
Nicky Mondellin…: That’s a problem.
Bruce Abbott: And it was not pretty. And as the production component of that piece of the pie on that, and being a talent and a voiceover coach, all you could do is just cringe as this very uncomfortable situation took place. So that’s a thing too. And again, that goes back to that whole authenticity. Be who you are. You’re not…
Ray Schilens: [inaudible 00:21:50] the golden throat.
Bruce Abbott: No, that’s not true.
Nicky Mondellin…: Play to your strengths. That’s what you have to do. Yeah.
Bruce Abbott: Be you.
Ray Schilens: Yeah. And that’s the discovery process that we use for the coaching and for the demo. It’s like, we’re not trying to make you somebody different. You’ve got to be you. And there is a limitation to, depending upon where we are at in our voiceover career, of what we can do. And we take that person to that place. And I think reinforcement, positivity, there are some coaches out there, I will not name who they are, that are very, very, very tough to work with because of their demeanor and the way that their coaching style. And that’s not us, we don’t do that. We play to the person on the upside, the positivity side. And that’s so important. So, so important.
Nicky Mondellin…: Exactly. I want to segue-way now into podcasting because that is also something that you guys do very well, not only because of your own podcast, but also producing other people’s podcasts. And so what is it that you do in specific to let people know if they’re ready also to start doing a podcast? What are the things that you tell them when a client approaches you and all that? Because it’s hard specifically for people that are not voiceover artists, but that have a very genre specific thing or very niche kind of area that they work in or a type of service they provide for a company. And they’re thinking, oh yeah, this is great for our branding and we want to start a podcast. But it’s hard for them to actually go ahead and do that. How do you coach them?
Bruce Abbott: That’s an interesting question. Because first off, I think of podcast as websites. When websites first came out, everybody needed a website. They didn’t know what to do with it, but they needed a website. Got to have one because everybody else has one. So I think the most important thing with podcasting is why do you want to do this? What do you want to accomplish here? And the folks who want to make a lot of money doing podcasting, good luck with that. That doesn’t happen. The companies who-
Ray Schilens: It does, it’s just-
Nicky Mondellin…: It can do, but it’s not the norm.
Ray Schilens: It can.
Bruce Abbott: But yeah, there are some out there.
Ray Schilens: It’s not a pot of gold on the other side of the rainbow, so to speak. And the second thing is, do you have a plan? Do you have a plan for this podcast? Think of it as a weekly television show or something like that, a 26 week. Can you give me a 26 week commitment to doing this? Because if you can’t, don’t waste your time. We are not an inexpensive place to do a podcast. There are podcast places out there for they’re doing like 35 bucks an hour. It’s like, I don’t think so. And the problem is they were in a former life, something else and they’re trying to catch onto this podcast phase, so they plop a couple of microphones on a table and then say they’re podcast people. Podcasting is broadcasting. The core of podcasting has come from NPR and such like that, where you do in-depth conversations about stuff.
And if you can do that, that’s really good. So our experience in broadcast, both Bruce and I coming from broadcast, that’s a real important element. We are not just a studio that used to produce music last week that now decided we want to do podcasts. This is where we come from. And this is the important element. So the question is, what do you want to sell? You’re not going to make a lot of money going out of the chute with this thing. What do you want to do? And the other thing that we try to help us shy away from is don’t be stupid and be controversial with profanity and dumb things just because you want to show off to your buds at the bar. Do something that is relevant, that moves the needle and changes the world. If you want to do that, then we can help you, because it’s so much more than just sitting in the podcast studio here and pushing record and letting you do a podcast. It’s got to be meaningful and you got to have a plan.
Bruce Abbott: I think I look at it a little bit different, but I think that there is a… We were talking earlier about authenticity and connection. And Ray was talking about the language there. We have a specific client that we have in mind who is really trying to be the community person, loved by the community kind of thing, family, all this stuff like that, but has a little bit of a hard time watching language on their podcast. So you’re not going to get a lot of family listenership.
Nicky Mondellin…: Exactly.
Ray Schilens: What do you think?
Bruce Abbott: However, it depends on your listeners. It depends on the content. It depends on the situation. I mean, I listen to podcasts that sometimes may have a language type thing in there, but it’s content that’s relevant to me and what I’m looking for. And that’s the thing. The thing about podcasting is, and just to dovetail from what Ray was saying, why are you doing it? What is it? Who are you doing it for? And is there a connection? And as you know, podcasts now range from the most incredibly broad general topics, it could be relationships or family or parenting, to the most minute, niche, thumb tacks or something. But there’s that understanding of why you want to do it and also understanding that there is a certain quality level that you really need to meet, because you can have great information but if it’s hard to listen to… I have a truck that has a stereo system and part of it’s a subwoofer and stuff, and it’s just like, it’s amazing all the plosives that… And you’re trying to listen to this thing sometimes.
Ray Schilens: Good point, good point. Yeah.
Bruce Abbott: That becomes, after a while, you’re just like, errr. Now I don’t know, that may be just the voice guy in me.
Ray Schilens: No, that’s a really good point, Bruce. That’s a really, really good point. Quality, quality.
Bruce Abbott: And quality. And it can be any kind of distraction. It can be a content distraction. It could be something where you’re so busy trying to make money on it where every other sentence is some kind of affiliate push, or whatever. So it really is this whole concept of you’re really just making a connection. You’re making a connection and you want to make that connection frictionless in as many ways as you can. You want it to have this feel like just you and the host and the guests are sitting at the table together.
Ray Schilens: Just like we’re doing now. Exactly.
Bruce Abbott: Just like we’re doing now.
Ray Schilens: Hey, I wanted to bring up something too that we didn’t talk about for years. We were doing podcasting before it was called podcasting. We were actually working with our good friends at Enron, uh-oh, and we were doing a thing, it was a telephony-based program first where you “push one to listen to things going on in Buenos Aires,” or whatever. And then it went to, when they got bandwidth, we put it on the intranet then. So we did the Enron thing, but then we started doing The Advertising Show, Bruce and I were affiliated with Brad Forsythe with The Advertising Show. And we started out on the radio then we went to Sirius XM and then we were syndicated and everything. And finally it came to a point where it’s like, well, why don’t we just be on the internet? This is 2001 we started this show. And we were getting toward the end there 50,000 listens a month on The Advertising Show, which is kind of weird because it was a two-hour show. Who has two hours to sit around?
Bruce Abbott: There was no iPod yet. And especially no smartphones where all of a sudden, you can subscribe and the latest episode just pops into your… So these were people that they’d get on an email list and when that email newsletter would come out every week and they’d click on and listen to the episode. And by the time that show came to a close was just about the time where the iPhone comes out, the built-in podcast. And then obviously the term podcast had kind of been bounced around a little bit. But it was kind of funny that by the time that show came to an end, then everything just went boom and exploded.
Nicky Mondellin…: Flooded so much.
Ray Schilens: I think we’re taking full responsibility for podcasting. Just like, what was it, Gore took responsibility for developing the internet. We are taking responsibility for podcasting, birthing that.
Nicky Mondellin…: And what do you think of your-
Bruce Abbott: Steve Jobs and I, we were-
Nicky Mondellin…: And what do you think about it now? So many people, I think a number that’s been thrown there about 700,000 podcasts out there, or do you think there’s more?
Ray Schilens: Yeah. Oh, sure there’s more.
Bruce Abbott: I’m not sure, but there’s probably more.
Ray Schilens: Well, we’ll see who comes through the door today with a podcast idea. That would be 700,001 or 2 or whatever.
Nicky Mondellin…: And we are back with some technical difficulty there, but I’m happy we could reconnect and just go on.
Ray Schilens: No, actually, Nicky, I went out for coffee, so I apologize for that.
Nicky Mondellin…: And Bruce, you probably had also a run to…
Bruce Abbott: I went to the beach.
Nicky Mondellin…: Oh, nice.
Bruce Abbott: Yeah. If I look a little more sunburned there, I was just…
Ray Schilens: Actually, he can dive out of his second story window into his pool, so that’s truer than you might expect.
Nicky Mondellin…: Well, there you go. Because your booth is on a second floor?
Bruce Abbott: Yeah. I have to tell a great story.
Ray Schilens: Oh, this is a wonderful story.
Bruce Abbott: Okay. So for any voice actors that are out there and you’re looking at a booth. Okay. So Craigslist. Okay. I’m inside one of the… I think it’s vocalbooths.com, their silver series. So they’re like, I don’t know, 7,000 or something like that on their website. And I was looking-
Ray Schilens: That’s in home there, buddy.
Bruce Abbott: Yeah. So I was looking at… My camera’s mounted or else I would show you around the place. So anyway, I was looking on Craigslist one time and I see a… So there was a logistics company that had leftover stuff from a trade show. And there was a booth and it was wrapped, and it was actually vinyl wrapped in whatever that client was for the trade show. And it had this big metal sign on the top of it and stuff like that. And they were offering it for 1,800 bucks, and they were out of Dallas.
And so for those people who are not in the Texas area, so Dallas is probably about a four and a half hour drive from the Houston area. So about 200 something, 250 whatever miles. So we contact them and offer them $1,000 for it. I’m like, well, I can’t offer $1,000 for… I mean, this is a $7,000 booth. They’re already asking 1,800. So I offer $1,000 and then they said, sure. So now, here’s the problem. I got to get it down here. And if you own a vocal booth, you know the walls are 400 pounds or whatever.
So yeah, so they’re a logistics company. So I paid them like $400. They put the thing on the back of a truck with some guys, drove it down from Dallas to a suburb here of Houston. One of my neighbors owns a moving company. So I hired a couple of his big dudes, and they literally helped us bring these pieces up a flight of stairs to the room-
Ray Schilens: My suggestion on that, by the way. It’s like, I’m not lugging this upstairs. No way.
Bruce Abbott: And they held the walls while we put the screws in and everything. When all was said and done, it cost me about $1,800 or so for a $7,000 booth. So be creative, watch Craigslist.
Nicky Mondellin…: Be practical and do a little detective work.
Bruce Abbott: Yeah. You never know what kind of things. And I tell you what, as with many other talent and stuff, I mean, this is an essential piece of tool because your room sound and everything like that is so important. And I can be doing work while there’s all this stuff going on outside and it doesn’t stop me like it used to years and years and years ago.
Ray Schilens: Nicky can relate the same way. Do like Bruce. Do like Bruce and Ray. Well, you forgot a part of the story, because the booth arrives, it is threatening rain here in Houston. And it arrives in the driveway on casters and it’s too tall to roll into the garage. So Bruce and I are there trying to take these 200 pound walls down before the rain comes. We did that. We actually beefed it up a little bit as well, because it is a good vocal booth, but it wasn’t a great one. We put vinyl mask material on the outside with Green Glue and we added a nice layer of indoor-outdoor carpeting to make it look really spiffy on the outside.
Bruce Abbott: But well, the outside was pretty rough because what they did was for logistics and legality and stuff, they stripped all the vinyl wrapping from the outside, which was a major telecommunications brand that’s three letters that’s ends with T&T. So they had to by law take all of that blank T&T vinyl wrap off of the outside.
Ray Schilens: And don’t forget about the big metal sign that was on top promoting it.
Bruce Abbott: Yeah. There was a huge metal sign with their logo on there that I took to the local scrap metal shop and got like $150 for it.
Nicky Mondellin…: And you even made money off of that.
Ray Schilens: No, it was a good deal. Yeah. Don’t be afraid to offer-
Bruce Abbott: Be creative, be creative.
Ray Schilens: Yeah. People will sell stuff for less than it actually should be sold for and I have no problem with that. Well, Nicky, look at your place now. You’ve invested heavily in a booth. We were talking about actually building a booth.
Nicky Mondellin…: Yes. You remember that? You came here, you helped me make my case with my husband. Because he’s like, okay, looking at the prices of the booths. And he’s like, “Oh, there’s no way we can spend that much,” or whatever. Let’s just build one. Maybe it costs us half the money to build that or whatever. And we were going to hire a contractor who had zero idea of what a audio booth is. He’s like, “Oh yeah, let’s just hang it from the ceiling or whatever.” I mean, he had no idea.
Ray Schilens: There were a couple of language barriers there, Nicky.
Nicky Mondellin…: Yeah, that too.
Ray Schilens: One was me trying to speak to a person who speaks fluent Spanish, and the other one was he not really understanding what we were trying to accomplish. So your husband discovered that. And the next thing you know, we’re ordering your studio bricks or studio blocks, whatever it’s called. What is it called again?
Nicky Mondellin…: Yes. Which came here. Yeah. Yeah. Studio bricks, which came here right when lockdown started. And I was so worried that it wouldn’t get here on time, because I’m like, well, the country is shutting down. The whole country is shutting down. I’m not going to get my booth. I was really in despair. But then… I mean, not then, but studio breaks or someone that they hired to transport, they say “Ma’am, yes, deliveries will still happen even if the country is shutting down, don’t worry. We still need to deliver things so you will get your booth.” And so that made me calm down. But then instead of having more people that I wanted to help me out and build it, because you couldn’t be in touch with anybody else.
Ray Schilens: No. You did the right thing.
Nicky Mondellin…: So my son that was here, luckily, my 6’5″ son who is pretty athletic and strong, helped us, and between me and my husband and my daughter as well. And we only had a little mishap. So the door, which is a double glass door, fell on his toe and he lost a fingernail. I’m glad he didn’t break his toe, but yes. So that’s a heavy door to be falling on your foot.
Ray Schilens: Yeah. Here’s the other thing. There are some of these places that are selling, for way too much money, as far as I’m concerned, some PVC with some moving blankets hanging on it on grommets. It’s like, you have got to be kidding me. First of all, you can go to Home Depot and you can buy moving blankets. There are some folks, one of the guys who was here, what I had him do is put furring strips. Again, this is not soundproof. You’re controlling the sound with PVC or with the blanket.
Bruce Abbott: The difference between sound absorption versus sound.
Ray Schilens: Yeah. And people don’t get that. I’m going to put foam up on the wall and I’m not going to hear the lawn guys. Well, that’s not true. But what we had them do, and this one guy did a great job, furring strips on the top and the bottom and then simply stapling moving blankets with kind of an undulation on the walls. He put it on the walls, the ceiling. And it’s a great vocal booth because you’re creating that sound… Not a sound barrier, but allowing the sound to go through the blanket into the wall, you’re effectively creating a wall trap. Right behind me, these are wall traps. This is Roxul insulation and they’re just stopping the reflection. And this is Studio B, this is our voice coaching studio, this is our source connect studio as well. And it’s tainted and you can’t see above me, but there’s also clouds that we have hung.
And when you’ve got a vocal booth, whether you’ve got Bruce’s or Nicky’s vocal booth, you’re in a better place. Is it completely soundproof? No, it’s not. The anechoic chamber at NASA is the only completely soundproof booth. And wouldn’t that be nice to have one of those? But no. But the thing is, when people are getting into voiceover, the thing that we don’t want to see them do is to buy every gadget that’s out there that somebody said, “Well, this’ll probably work. This’ll stop sound.”
There’s a big foam basketball that people, I won’t say the name, that say you put it over the end of the microphone and it’s going to make it a great vocal experience. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. So you got to be smart when you’re getting into VO. And a lot of these people who are getting into VO, don’t spend money like crazy. Don’t go out and buy expensive 416s or 87s or something like that. Get into it comfortably, be smart. You’re starting a business. You got to have the right tools, of course, and you’ve got to have the right space. We’ve sent many people into their closets because a closet is a great vocal booth with all of the clothes hanging there and such. But in the case of Bruce, if you can get a good deal on a vocal booth, go do it. In your case, you needed this. You are a professional voice actor and you need a good professional space to work and thrive. But you also made that decision well into your career. This is after you had done this for many, many years.
Nicky Mondellin…: Exactly. Yes, I’ve had it for three years now. But before that, I was recording in the room with acoustic foam all around, which only helped me reduce the noise from the outside to about 50%. I could still hear the lawn guys. I could still hear the power washing, and boy, could I hear the power washing. But yes, so the next step up was that. So what I had to do before is just record when there was silence, stop when the garbage truck was going by, whatever. So there’s all of these interruptions, but ever since I’ve had the booth, I’ve been able to record whenever I need to record. And so that’s been a blessing.
Ray Schilens: If you’re doing a source connect session or you’ve got a client on with a digital phone patch or something there, you can’t stop. You have to think about the fact, what kind of bush league operation is this that we got to wait for the airplane to fly over? That happens as well. But it’s important that you present yourself professionally. You are a professional voice actor, present yourself that way. Another thing, Nicky, that we see sometimes, and you talked about SOVAS and the great conversations that we had with Rudy and Joan as well. And one thing that Bob Bergen said, “Show up, be nice, and stay late if you need to.” Be nice. And we’re finding, I’m dealing today with a voice actor. It’s like, “We need to get a spot done today. Can you please call me back?” And I’m hoping that this gentleman who will be doing this while [inaudible 00:44:31] doing that.
You gotta be available for people and you have to respond professionally. And I’m hoping after we’re done with this podcast that I’ve got an email from him that we’re good to go, because, again, it’s our reputation on the line for bringing somebody to the table. We’ve had voice actors show up late for sessions sometimes. “Oh, there was a train,” or “Traffic was horrible.” You know what? Figure that out before you get to the session and come prepared to be a professional at the session. And I think that again is part of the coaching process, teaching them to be a professional. It’s no different than when you hire the guys to come fix your plumbing. They put the booties on when they come in your house so they don’t make your house dirty. Little things like that go a long way.
Nicky Mondellin…: They go a long way. And you also, I think, both of you guys have a very good way of dealing with talking to clients. We’ve been in sessions there at Radio Lounge where I just can see how clients are so comfortable with you because you make them feel at home right away. And I just want to point that out because it’s not easy. Sometimes clients ask for very specific things that can’t always be done. And whenever they present something, you guys find the solution right away, and you make everyone feel at ease. And so talk to me about some of the ways that you have that and the ways that you’ve developed that in talking to clients and just doing that, just making them feel comfortable. And they trust you. And you guys have had clients for years and years that they know they come to you, they know they’re going to get quality and that you’re going to deliver. So how do you create that trust?
Ray Schilens: It’s a relationship thing. It’s really no different. You’ve got to, when the people who come in here, whether they’re a voice actor or an agency or a client, a direct client or something, they need to understand that you are there for them. You are there to respect their wishes and give them good guidance. We’ve had many clients, a local chain of hospitals here, that rely on us to coach the talent, even though they are the connection point between the talent and the product, because they understand that, well, Radio Lounge, they just got this way with people. They can make the talent feel good, feel comfortable and understand the importance of giving a great performance.
So it’s a level of respect, but it’s all about, as with anything in life, it’s all about the relationships. Do they trust you? Do they believe in what you do? And in the setting here, Nicky, and you’ve been here before, you understand that. It’s first of all, professional, and second of all, it’s a relaxed environment. It’s called the Radio Lounge. It’s an appropriate name for this place because that’s what happens here. You come in here, you’re going to do a good job because you feel good about your environment. And there’s no level of frustration for a talent and/or for an agency or a direct client. So relationships, I think, are the key here.
Bruce Abbott: I think, in addition to that, it is relationships being both sides of the glass, being both talent at times, and then being both producers at times. You get really good at recognizing situations too. So you start to get, for example, if you are working and you’ve got a client in an agency and you’re doing the production part of this, you can tell when a voice talent is starting to get frazzled. And so you know that, you’ve been in those situations before. We’ve been in many voiceover sessions that just go smooth as silk. And we’ve also been in some of those voiceover sessions where, I mean, they really ran you through your paces. And so we try to bring some of that experience, because we can start to tell where it’s a law of diminishing returns.
So there are times where we see a client and sometimes they may be somebody new at an agency, they’re not used to directing talent. And we can see that what is happening here is you guys are starting to push the talent into uncomfortable territory and this is only just going to start spiraling downhill. So at that point, that’s where having that relationship with those clients and having the relationship with that, so we’re able to, “Hey, you know what we’ve seen work? Let’s try this.” And, “Oh, okay.” And a lot of times we’re able to salvage that. And that’s just one particular situation, but those personality types too. In other words, Ray and I are pretty easy going personality types and so we tend to connect well, not only with clients and agencies, but also because we’re also talent, we can connect to the talent. We’ve been in their shoes.
And so we know the types of things that give them creature comforts that are helpful in situations. So, we do that year in and year out. I was looking at this the other day, Ray and I have been working together as a team here for 32 years. And you start to read people, like there are times we can be in a session or something, and I’m the talent and Ray’s the producer, and there may be something. And all I have to do is look at him a certain way and he can read my mind like a book. And that also happens with some of our clients. We have some of our clients that we’ve had for 25 years now. And so it just gets to a point where if we think that there’s something that can be done that improves it or improves the scenario or something like that, they’re open to that. They’re like, “Okay, you guys, we trust you on this.” And it just takes that, you have to build that trust.
Ray Schilens: I’m going to tag onto that as well. There are a couple of types of directors that come from either direct clients or agencies. Some that don’t know what they really want. They know they’re not getting what they want, but then they don’t know how to really demonstrate what they want, which is very confusing. And that’s many times in a session if we’ve got somebody in the booth and we see that they’re getting confused and not good direction, we will take over and make some gentle, persuasive suggestions on how to do things. And a lot of times, you might have the perfect take on the first take, but well, “We’re paying a lot of money for this person. We got to get more than one take.” So we’ll do it and do it again, until the agency or the client is happy with that. But you have to keep the voice actor calm and composed and confident.
And you have to make sure that you don’t cross the line as the relationship goes with the agency or the director or whatever. One of the things that we talk about here in the coaching sessions is some of the folks come in, “Well, what if I said it this way instead?” It’s like, okay, sitting over there, directing this session is the person, the copywriter, that they paid a whole bunch of money for to come up with this copy. They are not interested in your opinion of how it could be better. Shut up and read the copy. And come prepared as well. That’s another thing. So many times people come into a session and they will not know the right name of the product, the right name of the city. It’s like, shouldn’t you have done your homework before you come to this session?
Now that doesn’t happen a lot, but it does happen occasionally. And that’s something that we teach as part of the coaching process, is: Be prepared. We do a lot for the Houston Symphony. And there are so many names out there of guest artists and composers and conductors and such like that. So you go to YouTube and you hear a couple of iterations of how they actually say the person’s name. And most of the time, Bruce, I think we get it right. There are times when we’ll have to redo something, but we try. And again, there’s that level of respect, the relationship thing with our clients. They believe that at the end, they’re going to get something good out of Radio Lounge or out of the voice actors and both of us and the people that we bring through here. So that’s an important thing that we do as well.
Nicky Mondellin…: Yeah. Can you guys talk a little bit about that great series that you did on SOVAS? Because I think those episodes were just phenomenal. On Feel the Ad Love!
Ray Schilens: Those were fun.
Nicky Mondellin…: And you had Rudy Gaskins and Joan Baker and also Joseph Cipriano and Bob Bergen and Debbe Hirata. Talk a little bit about how that started or whose idea it was to do that series. And it explains very well what the SOVAS are, the Society of Voice Arts and Sciences, how people get nominated or the voting process and the whole thing.
Ray Schilens: I love that. The fact that you are connected with that too is really cool. You were actually a recipient of an award or two, an award for [inaudible 00:54:46]
Nicky Mondellin…: Yes. In 2017. I’ve been nominated three times and then I got an award in 2017.
Ray Schilens: We met Joan and Rudy and we thought… Well, actually through Debbe. Debbe is on the board. That’s right, she’s on the board for SOVAS. Do you know that every coaching student that we have come through here, the very first thing we have them do is sign up for the SOVAS news letter? It’s free. You’re going to get a real good introduction to voiceover. And this is a great organization so go get that newsletter and start listening to that thing as well. But yeah, Debbe’s one of our voice actors on some commercials that we do here. And I said, “Debbe, can we do something to help promote the Voice Arts awards? Can we do a podcast where this is Feel the Ad Love?” She goes, “Oh yeah, that’d be wonderful.”
And it’s like, it’s a no-brainer. It’s like, yeah, we’re going to do it. So that’s how we hooked up with Joan and Rudy. And then people like Bergen and Cipriano. And of course we had Debbe on there as well. These are really, really good people and accomplished people in the voice acting field. So it was a lot of fun and it was just kind of a gift from Radio Lounge to the voiceover industry and to SOVAS and the things that they do. Let’s promote this event. I said, for the next six months, we’re going to do stuff to promote this event. And they said, sure, absolutely. And that’s what we did. Go ahead, Bruce.
Bruce Abbott: And I will say, being a voice actor, and I’ve listened to a ton of voiceover podcasts. And although this does seem biased…
Ray Schilens: Why not? Go for it.
Bruce Abbott: Those are some of the… Especially that Bob Bergen one, that Bob Bergen podcast, it has to be required listening for any voiceover artist, because not only does Bob tell a story, but we brought things out of Bob that I don’t think he intended us to bring out of him. And by the end of this, we were laughing so hysterically we could hardly breathe or speak. It was phenomenal. But the cool thing is, within all of the silliness that was happening and the laughter and the joking and all of this stuff, were these incredible pearls of wisdom, these nuggets of just voiceover gold within those. And it was just so much fun. And of course we were promoting the awards coming up at that time. And that was one of the most fun things I think in voiceover I’ve ever done, was those podcasts. We did just a few of them there, leading up to the event. I think we did, what, three or four coming up there? Five? So it’s required listening. I’m just saying that you have to.
Nicky Mondellin…: Yes, please. I’m going to link to that specific episode with Bob and then people can go back and listen to the others, but that’s definitely one of the ones they should listen to. Bruce, I wanted to ask you something about… I saw that you were reading Atomic Habits, and I heard an interview with… I forgot the name of the author, but he’s amazing.
Bruce Abbott: Is it James Clear?
Nicky Mondellin…: I think so. Yes, I think it is James Clear.
Bruce Abbott: Sometimes I get all confused in my head, so if I’m wrong, I apologize.
Nicky Mondellin…: How has that helped you? Has it made an impact on you? Has it helped you in any way in your career and your life?
Bruce Abbott: Yes, probably part of it, I am sometimes horrible at what I call discipline and commitment kind of thing. Some things I can be very disciplined on, but there’s some areas where I’m kind of like, [inaudible 00:59:07]. And I’m no different than probably 90% of everybody else, where it’s like, I go hot and cold. I’ll be very disciplined in some of the things I do and then I’ll end up somehow slacking off for a while and stuff. But I do believe that no matter what you do, whether you’re a voice actor or if you’re in a completely other field, never stop pushing for self-improvement, never stop trying to make yourself better. You mentioned Atomic Habits, and one of the things in that book is: be 1% better today than you were yesterday. Then by the time you accumulate a month or six months or a year, you’ve created incredible traction.
So whatever that may be, whether it’s habits, it could be marketing, it could be things specifically with voiceover, it could be performance, it could be coaching, it could be whatever, but just always be pushing for improvement, just always trying to do that. There was a big section of time where I really stepped away from voice acting per se, where it was like, I was just running the business side of things with the Radio Lounge and producing and doing all that stuff. And I’d do the occasional spot and everything, but I didn’t actively pursue the voice acting. And then when I decided that I was going to, I just started putting one foot in front of the other and trying to be a little bit better and do a little bit more and this and that. And sometimes it became almost an obsession and sometimes it would be very frustrating.
I’d bang my head against the wall because I wanted to improve in ways that it just wasn’t happening. But it’s just like anything else. It’s this thing where it’s peaks and valleys, but are you creating an upward trend? So no matter what it is, just be patient, be consistent. If consistency and discipline is a problem, learn how to try to be better in being disciplined in commitment and consistency, and then pursue some of these other areas. But I did, I loved that book. In fact, I’ve read it probably twice and I probably need to go back and read it again.
Nicky Mondellin…: But yes, we can definitely all do with little improvements. Atomic, meaning small ones, so that’s small steps that you can do every day and then just building up from there. Yeah.
Ray Schilens: I think that’s a really good way to put it as far as small steps go, because I think anytime you give yourself too lofty of a goal, you’re going to fall short and that’s going to discourage you. So little things make a big difference over time. And doing something daily, well, anything that you do as a repetitive thing builds good habits.
Nicky Mondellin…: Yeah, absolutely. Ray, how do you navigate the highs and lows of the business? I mean, not only as a production company, but also with all the other things that you do relating to the different areas of work that you do. And of course, there was a pandemic that was hard for all of us. But just as a general thing, this is a tough business with all those peaks and valleys, and so how do you navigate those?
Ray Schilens: Life is tough, isn’t it? And faith is at the forefront of my rock. And that’s how I get through the ups and downs. Basically, very simplistically, we do a thing in the morning as a family called sun up one. We do it as a family. And that is a prayer for strength and protection and such. And as long as you’ve got that foundation, you’re good, because days are going to suck and days are going to be sunshiny and blue skies and beautiful as well. But to get through the not so blue sky days, the rainy days, in my particular case, faith is the foundation. Very simplistically, nothing beyond that. And if you can reduce it to that, that’s a pretty good way to move forward. Don’t want to make anything too complex in life. You don’t want to second guess yourself. If you’ve got something you can lock onto that gives you good feelings, good vibes, and an opportunity to grow and be better, then that’s what you lock onto and you do that faithfully. So that’s my foundation.
Nicky Mondellin…: That is amazing and something that is a great bit of advice for all of us to follow. How can people find you when they’re interested in doing a new demo or starting a podcast or getting some coaching? Where can people log onto?
Ray Schilens: We’re in the yellow pages under demo. What? Oh, wait, no, we don’t do that anymore. Never mind. Radioloungeusa.com is our website and you can reach out to us anytime. We do discovery sessions as well. No obligation, just come in and talk with us. We put you in the booth and we’ve got people as well who are established voice actors. There’s one lady in particular who lives in Hawaii. She has relatives here in Houston and she’s coming in to do some demos. We’ll do some coaching.
Bruce Abbott: So for voice acting, we have a lot of local actors that come in, and we love having them when they’re here in person, because they get the vibe. But we understand with this podcast, it’s a global audience. And we also understand that voice acting is a global business now. And so we know that it’s not always an option to be able to get into a studio. And of course, many voice actors have taken advantage of Zoom coaching and everything. And if there was anything that COVID really taught us was that it’s okay to do things remote before where it used to be like, what?
Now it becomes more of the norm. So we offer Zoom coaching, in-person coaching. Location doesn’t stop anything anymore. We’re able to do demo sessions. We do demo sessions here in our place. We also do demo sessions where talent are recording from their own locations. If they don’t have a setup, then we kind of work and help, we either help them get a setup from wherever they’re at, or find a studio where they can connect to us via a source connect or something like that. But there is a multitude of ways that you can reach out and work with us in terms of the voice coaching.
Ray Schilens: As [inaudible 01:06:35] used to say, reach out and touch someone.
Bruce Abbott: Okay. Oh, yes. I think my vocal booth actually used to have a New York Yankees logo along with that company logo, and a big Derek Jeter thing, which if you’re a Yankees fan, I’m sorry, but we’re here in Houston. And so I would have a Jose Altuve, but then the booth would only be like four feet something tall.
Ray Schilens: Don’t say that.
Nicky Mondellin…: Oh, come on.
Bruce Abbott: I love Jose.
Ray Schilens: [inaudible 01:07:04] stature.
Nicky Mondellin…: Jose, small and mighty.
Bruce Abbott: I love that man. He’s awesome.
Nicky Mondellin…: Guys, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much again for joining me today and for all your pearls of wisdom. This is amazing. People have a very clear idea of how they can reach out to you. And of course, then they’ll be following your podcast and just taking note of all the amazing bits of advice that you’ve given to me today. So what is one last thing that each of you would like to say that it’s… Let’s say it’s a little message in a bottle that you would want to put, and not only for the industry, but just for people in general. Okay? Bruce, do you think of something? Does something come to mind?
Bruce Abbott: I think when it comes to, let’s say for voice acting, be patient, soak it all in, absorb it, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. This is a business and a job just like any other one. It’s going to have ups, it’s going to have downs. You’re not going to go in and get your first job at a large company as the CEO. You’re going to have to come in and work your way as somebody new, somebody new to a company. So that’s the way the voiceover is, is don’t get discouraged, but also understand that this is not an overnight thing where people come in and it’s like, wow, you know what? I watched this YouTube video and I bought this USB mic, and right, I’m ready to make six figures this year. It takes time. I mean, it takes time. It took me several years to get to that point. So that’s my piece of advice is just be patient, work it, be consistent. 1% every day. And practice, practice, practice. Keep going and you’ll get it. You will get it. You will rock on there.
Ray Schilens: Be professional.
Nicky Mondellin…: On point.
Ray Schilens: Be professional. Be on time. Check your ego at the door. Be nice and make sure that you do and leave the very best impression with everyone that you touch, whether it’s an audition or a session. And stay in contact with people. Don’t overdo it. If you’re going to communicate with somebody, do it in a relevant way. Don’t try and sell somebody on yourself. Just remind people. Be creative as well in the way you present yourself. That’s an important asset as well. But the biggest thing is be nice. Be nice. And it’ll come right back at you.
Nicky Mondellin…: Exactly. Well, that is great advice for everyone to take to heart, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Ray and Bruce. This has been a true pleasure. And I look forward to collaborating with you guys soon, to seeing you guys soon around town or at a burger joint or someplace else.
Bruce Abbott: Absolutely. Thanks. It’s totally our pleasure.
Ray Schilens: Great job, Nicky. Keep it going, okay?
Nicky Mondellin…: I will do.
Ray Schilens: You can do this. You can do this.
Alan Villatoro: Thanks for joining us on La Pizarra. Want to listen to more episodes? Visit lapizarrapodcast.com or nickymondellini.com/lapizarra, where you can sign up for our newsletter and get exclusive previews of future episodes, as well as resources for your creative business. Tune in next week for another interesting interview.

 

Episode Summary

Ana Santana @santanuca, comparte lo importante que han sido sus conocimientos en publicidad para comprender qué es lo pide el cliente del otro lado del cristal y nos explica el concepto del locutor como producto-servicio-persona, para poder desarrollar nuestra marca personal.

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mario Filio: Esto es La Pizarra, un espacio para explorar las mentes creativas del mundo del espectáculo en ambos lados de la cámara y el micrófono. Aquí está su anfitriona, Nicky Mondellini.

[00:00:15] Nicky Mondellini: Hola, ¿qué tal? Bienvenidos a un episodio más de La Pizarra. Soy Nicky Mondellini. Seguimos aquí con la sexta temporada. Yo quiero recordarles que todos los episodios de La Pizarra están disponibles en la aplicación gratis para iOS y Android. Se llama La Pizarra Podcast, que también es el nombre de nuestra página web. La otra página web donde también encuentran todo es nickymondellini.com/lapizarra.

También quiero decirles que en esa aplicación ustedes ahora me van a poder dejar comentarios. Me encantaría saber de ustedes qué les gusta más acerca de este podcast, cuáles han sido los episodios que les han gustado, qué les gustaría escuchar y qué les gustaría ver de ahora en adelante en La Pizarra y si también están disfrutando los episodios en inglés, que ha sido una de las novedades que hemos tenido a partir de la quinta temporada.

Cuéntenme todo eso, avísenme qué les gusta, qué temas quisieran que exploráramos porque yo con muchísimo gusto me iré a encontrar a los expertos que les den exactamente lo que ustedes quieren. Hablando de expertos y de contenido, hoy vamos a hablar con una persona que es una gran locutora y también es una experta en la publicidad. Ella ha aplicado esos conocimientos de publicidad para ayudar ahora a los locutores que queremos desarrollar nuestra marca personal. Su nombre es Ana Santana.

Ahora en un momento ustedes van a ver cómo ella nos va a platicar acerca de lo que es un brief. En un momentito les voy a dar exactamente todos los datos acerca de quién es y cómo pueden ustedes conocer a Ana Santana.

[música de fondo]

Cuando me preguntan qué plataforma recomiendo para grabar un podcast o reuniones virtuales yo siempre digo que SquadCast es de lo mejor que existe hoy en día porque puedes grabar con hasta nueve invitados con una increíble calidad de sonido profesional. La verdad es que es de lo mejor que yo he escuchado en cualquier otra plataforma. Además. puedes descargar tus archivos de audio ya masterizados con sonido Dolby. Pruébalo gratis por siete días en squadcast.fm/?ref=lapizarra. Este link lo vas a encontrar en las notas del programa.

En SquadCast tienes muchas ventajas, como la posibilidad de grabar también en video. Lo mejor es que ahora tus invitados ya se pueden unir en un dispositivo móvil, ya sea en iOS o en Android. Además, el soporte técnico está para ayudarte con cualquier duda o problema técnico que surja. Me consta que te responden el mismo día. Busca el link en las notas del programa para que pruebes podcast gratis por siete días y luego eliges el plan que más te convenga, ya sea mensual o anual.

Con más de 20 años de experiencia en publicidad, Ana Santana ha tenido a su cargo cuentas como Nivea, promociones Pepsi y Bacardí, entre muchas otras. Ella ha visto la necesidad que tenemos los artistas de la voz y de cualquiera que tenga un negocio artístico de tener un buen manejo del branding. Como ella nos va a explicar en algunos momentos todo empieza con un buen brief.

Ana es licenciada en Ciencias de la Comunicación. Tiene una diplomatura en Literatura, Arte y Cine y otra en Mitología Mundial, ambas realizadas en la Universidad Iberoamericana de la Ciudad de México. También ella es tallerista d El Taller de las Voces dirigido por Martha Escobar, como ustedes van a escuchar en unos momentos, donde yo también tengo el gusto de ser una tallerista con la sección de Creando tu Podcast.

Vamos a hablar muy específicamente de los cursos que Ana ha desarrollado para El Taller de las Voces y cómo ustedes pueden acceder a esta comunidad de El Taller de las Voces para tomar los cursos de Ana o también para hacer asesorías que también ella da, estas asesorías personales para ayudarnos a desarrollar nuestra marca, tener un mayor conocimiento de quiénes somos y qué ofrecemos precisamente para conseguir el tipo de clientes específicos a los que queremos llegar.

Ana, ¿cómo estás? Qué gusto que estés aquí con nosotros en La Pizarra. Cuéntame un poquito cómo es que empezó tu camino dentro de la publicidad.

[00:04:38] Ana Santana: Yo muy contenta de estar aquí. Nicky, la verdad, Gracias por la invitación. Yo estudié Comunicación y la verdad es que yo no quería ser publicista, me parecía que la publicidad engañaba a las personas. Por azares del destino, cuando acabé la carrera, caí en una agencia de publicidad y me enamoré. Me enamoré tanto y me quedé 20 años ahí metida haciendo publicidad siempre en el área de servicio a clientes. La publicidad es fascinante. Sí, no hay medias tintas, o te encanta o te mata, porque es súper, superdemandante, es muy demandante, pero fascinante.

[00:05:13] Nicky: ¿Qué fue ese aspecto que te hizo que te enamoraras de la publicidad cuando antes tenías esa reticencia? ¿Qué fue eso que realmente te llamó y te dijo, “Yo de aquí soy”?

[00:05:26] Ana: Yo creo que cuando me di cuenta y viví el proceso, el proceso que se sigue para vender un producto para una campaña de publicidad, desde dónde empieza todo este proceso. El irlo viviendo y masticando pedacito por pedacito hasta que ves el comercial al aire, el anuncio, ya reflejado todo por lo que pasaste y lo ves ahí, guao. Es como tener un bebé en cada campaña y es padrísimo. Luego ver los resultados y que sí funciona, que a la gente le gusta, los comentarios, eso es fascinante.

[00:06:02] Nicky: Es fascinante también el proceso, hablamos también de lo que son los focus groups y todo eso. Es un proceso largo, pero muy interesante cómo se toma en cuenta la opinión de la gente para implementarlo en esa campaña y para saber exactamente al nicho al que va dirigido ese producto en especial.

[00:06:24] Ana: Es correcto. Sí. También lo que pasó es que yo por todas las agencias de publicidad por las que pasé curiosamente me hacía muy amiga o hacía mucho clic con la gente de planning, de planeación estratégica. Me empecé a meter yo siendo de dirección de cuentas, pero me encanta cuando nos tocaba hacer research y todas estas cosas de investigación de mercado. Esas cosas de poder traducir los insights que dice el consumidor y que acaben en una campaña, en una frase, me parece increíble.

[00:06:57] Nicky: ¿Eso sientes que lo has aplicado en la locución?

[00:07:01] Ana: Sí, la verdad es que sí, porque con todo este conocimiento ahora sí que del otro lado de una cabina de un locutor, donde están siempre los clientes y el ingeniero que era donde me tocaba estar a mí, cuando estás adentro ya en la cabina es muy diferente. Sí entiendo muchísimas de las cosas que escucho que dicen los clientes porque de ahí vengo. Es como de, “Okay, está pidiendo esto. Se refiere a esto, se refiere al otro”, porque para mí es un lenguaje muy, muy conocido.

No es que no entiendan lo que dicen, al contrario, yo, “Okay. Está buscando esta cosa, está buscando esto”, porque entiendo el lenguaje. Es como hablar como dos idiomas, chistoso.

[00:07:44] Nicky: Yo creo que eso es un as bajo la manga que tú tienes. Estás en una posición privilegiada porque tú sabes cómo piensa la gente del otro lado del micrófono, del otro lado del cristal. Uno como locutor hay veces que estás en una sesión dirigida y te empiezan a pedir cosas que tú como que no logras entender por dónde van, pero tú ya tienes esa otra perspectiva y ya lo puedes traducir.

[00:08:08] Ana: Exacto. Además porque, conociendo todo el proceso, cuando como locutor te llega un texto en frente de 10 renglones, yo sí sé– Al ver el texto de verdad como que me pasa un rewind en la mente y todo el proceso, de todo lo que tuvo que pasar para que este texto estuviera en mis manos, lo respeto mucho. Lo que pasa es que lo respeto mucho.

Sí, con todo el conocimiento o el know-how de tantos años en publicidad, digo, “Okay, le están hablando a no sé quién, esto va dirigido a no sé quién. Quien te [unintelligible 00:08:44] la adición de compra de este anuncio es la mamá, es el papá o es para el chavito”. Lo empiezo a traducir automáticamente por el know-how. No es que yo saque, “Súper”. Lo hice 20 años, es muy fácil para mí.

[00:09:00] Nicky: Yo creo que realmente si pudiéramos emplear eso y ponernos en los zapatos de los que crearon ese spot y de lo que todo lo que pasaron para finalmente llegar a ese copy, a ese texto que tienes en las manos, tu perspectiva cambia y ya puedes decirlo desde otro punto de vista y no nada más machetear ahí las líneas y buscar las tonalidades, sino saber, “Espérame, ¿a quién va dirigido? ¿Por qué? ¿Qué es lo que se trata de decir?”.

[00:09:30] Ana: Exacto. Al final, como locutores lo que quieres es comunicar. Se trata de comunicar. Como no contamos con todo este lenguaje no corporal– Perdón. Lenguaje corporal más bien cuando la gente te ve, pero cuando tienes solamente la voz tienes que hacer muchísimas más cosas para que la gente se imagine lo que estás haciendo. Esas cosas también son fascinantes, también por eso decidí ser locutora después de dejar la publicidad.

[00:09:59] Nicky: Precisamente esa iba a ser mi siguiente pregunta, ¿cómo fue la transición para ti y qué fue lo te hizo cambiar de rumbo? No es un rumbo diametralmente opuesto porque finalmente sigues dentro de la publicidad como locutora comercial, pero el de decir, “Okay, ya, ahora sí mi espacio de trabajo va a ser una cabina de audio, van a ser estudios de grabación profesionales”. ¿Qué fue lo que ya te fue llamando precisamente a empezar esa carrera de locución?

[00:10:28] Ana: La verdad es que cuando yo estaba siendo directora de cuentas, cada vez que me tocaba ir a hacer el audio de mis comerciales o lo que sea, el locutor es lo último que se hace de todo el proceso creativo para sacar una campaña el aire. Yo los veía y decía, “Ay, qué padre estar ahí adentro. Qué padre”, y fin de tema. Finalmente, dejo la publicidad porque quería dedicarme a ser mamá. Mi hija tenía en ese entonces dos años y medio. Decidí renunciar y ser mamá. Me pasé como seis años siendo mamá.

Ya cuando vi que empezó a crecer mi hija, dije, “Ay, como que quiero regresar a la vida laboral y a ser económicamente activa”, pero ya no quería regresar a la publicidad porque yo sé lo demandante que es. De verdad lo sé y dije, “Ya no”. En eso de verdad así literal dije, “Yo siempre quise ser locutora, me voy a poner a estudiar”. No dije, “Voy a ser locutora”, no.

Me puse a estudiar y he tomado 500 cursos. Empecé con Patricia Palestino, tomé clases de improvisación con Héctor Illanes. Empecé a prepararme. Después como de tres años de estar clases, clases, clases, como que dije, “Bueno, okay, ahora sí me voy a aventar al ruedo”. Fue cuando hice mi demo y empecé a tocar puertas porque, aunque yo venía del mundo de la publicidad, el mundo de la locución es totalmente diferente.

No crean que porque yo tengo contactos o conocidos en agencias de publicidad se me abren las puertas. No, yo tuve que tocar puertas en todos lados, de no conocer el gremio, de entender cómo funciona ser locutor, cómo se tiene que vender uno, cómo funcionas tú como persona, como producto. Esas cosas las tuve que ir aprendiendo poco a poco y ahí vamos. Empecé muy tarde, por eso también. Empecé a los 45, 46 años, pero no me importa, soy muy feliz siendo locutora.

[00:12:36] Nicky: Esta carrera fíjate que no, Ana. Realmente yo creo que no hay momento que sea muy tarde para empezar o para cambiar de giro. Mientras tienes vida, tienes salud y quieres tocar otras puertas, quieres abrir otros horizontes, ¿por qué no explorarlos y por qué no hacerlo? Lo hiciste de la manera correcta, como dices, “Empecé a tomar muchas clases”, lo cual es clave.

Hay locutores que no quieren dedicarle todo el esfuerzo que se necesita a prepararse. Ellos nada más dicen, “No, mira, me compro este micrófono, tengo este software de grabación y todo, me aviento y empiezo”, pero no. ¿Hasta dónde vas a llegar? No vas a llegar muy lejos. Si te preparas muy bien, así como tú lo has hecho, sigues y continuas, porque esa preparación nunca termina, obviamente ya va a ser diferente. Como decimos, ya con ese conocimiento único que tienes tú también del punto de vista del publicista sigue creciendo esa carrera tuya.

[00:13:38] Ana: Claro, eso es lo que espero y lo que intento. También con ese conocimiento publicitario o esa visión que ya la traigo en la vena seguro de tantos años de hacerlo, sí también me doy cuenta que la locución no solamente es la locución comercial de los spots, de los anuncios, de las narraciones, hay un sinfín de cosas que se pueden hacer con la voz y es fascinante. Mi primer trabajo fue y e-learning para enseñar a chavitos en el mercado latino, clases de matemáticas y cosas así, era un software.

Me encantaba cuando me decían, “Esto va para niños de cuatro años”. Hacías la voz toda así para que te entendieran como si fueras la miss de kínder. Luego, “Estos van para secundaria”, y te pedían que fueras como más tough con la voz. Era muy divertido. El poder jugar con todas estas cosas, estos personajes, comunicar, y no solamente en un nanospot de televisión o de radio, sino todo lo que puedes decir en tantas cosas, en videos internos, en un e-learning, en un IVR, en un audio libro.

Es increíble poder trabajar con la voz. Yo ya sé que mis profesores me regañan siempre mucho, pero de verdad me alegro de haber tomado esta decisión, de haberme aventado, de cambiar diametralmente de profesión, pero lo haría gratis, de veras. Cuando estoy en una cabina, así cuando me toca grabación.

[conversación cruzada]

Ya sé, me regañan, pero me gusta tanto que me emociona mucho. Cuando tengo la oportunidad de estar en la cabina grabando para mí es de las cosas más padres que me puedan pasar en el día.

[00:15:24] Nicky: Claro, ahí es donde puedes ver que realmente sí tienes una pasión por ello. Yo creo que los que estamos en esto y que ya llevamos muchos años realmente sí. Tenemos alma de artista, somos artistas de la voz. Sí, si pudiéramos vivir del aire lo haríamos sin cobrar, pero hay que pagar las cuentas y ni modo. [ríe]

[00:15:42] Ana: No, pero por supuesto. Aparte, créeme que me interesa acabar viviendo de esto. Por eso digo que siempre me regañan, pero me gusta tanto que es un honor que te paguen por hacer lo que te gusta.

[00:15:53] Nicky: Exacto, es un honor, sí, así es. ¿Cuál es el género que más te gusta de todos los que ya has hecho?

[00:16:00] Ana: Me encantan los audiolibros. Los audiolibros es una cosa que descubrí, que he disfrutado enormemente porque me recuerda un poco cuando yo era directora de cuenta. De todas las cuentas que manejé la verdad es que te tienes que volver experto en esos productos, en esos mercados, en esos nichos. No sé, manejé Maseca, me volví experta en tortillas. Manejé Movistar, me volví experta en telefonía celular y la competencia. Aprendes muchas cosas, era lo que me gustaba de mi trabajo.

Con el audiolibro pasa exactamente lo mismo, porque lo vas leyendo y vas aprendiendo un montón de cosas, porque he narrado un montón de temas, filosofía, cuentos para niños, novelas, historia, biografías, muchos de autoayuda, hasta eróticos por ahí. Es divertidísimo y aprendes un montón.

[00:17:00] Nicky: Eres una storyteller apasionada, ¿no?

[risas]

[00:17:02] Ana: Sí, sí me gusta mucho.

[00:17:05] Nicky: Qué maravilla. Ahora cambiemos un poquito de rumbo. Vamos a hablar acerca de otro tema que tú manejas muy bien y de lo cual tú estás dando clases en El Taller de las Voces, que es lo del desarrollo de marca. ¿Qué tan importante es que nos veamos como un negocio?

[00:17:25] Ana: Superimportante porque, como siempre les digo cada vez que doy un webinar, es muy curioso el ser locutor porque eres un producto-servicio-persona. Así le digo yo porque, aunque vendes un servicio y estás prestando un servicio que es tu voz, que es como licenciar algún producto, finalmente sí eres tú. El separarlo es bien complicado, porque si al cliente no le gusta es bien complicado no tomártelo personal.

Si tú vendes una taza y al cliente no le gusta la taza, le cambias el color y ya está, es un objeto. Cuando ese producto eres tú y te dicen no me gusta o sí me gusta. Híjole, tener esa capacidad de no tomártelo personal es súper, superimportante y es muy difícil porque eres tú. Por eso digo que somos producto-servicio-persona.

Yo creo que es muy importante que sí nos tomemos como un producto para poder crear una marca porque si lo empezamos a hacer así es una gran herramienta para poder hacer justo esta separación de la que te hablo, para que no te lo tomes personal. Mientras más entiendas que lo que estás vendiendo es un producto, que no eres tú la que no les cae bien, no eres tú, es tu voz porque no funciona para ese producto, la pasas mejor.

[00:18:57] Nicky: Cierto, porque nuestra voz no va a ser la adecuada o la voz perfecta para todos los productos. Para ello ahí tienes que confiar en el criterio de los que te van a contratar o no. Esos rechazos tomarlos como, “Bueno, es que este no era para mí”. También esos rechazos nos permiten seguirnos entrenando, seguir buscando maneras diferentes de vender todo tipo de productos.

[00:19:27] Ana: No, por ejemplo, seguro pasa que te llega un casting, tú lo interpretas, lo mandas y no te lo quedas. Cuando lo ves al aire o lo escuchas al aire, para ser correctos, dices, “Ah, okay, lo que estaban buscando era esto”. Cuando ya te sales tú de tu persona y empiezas a escuchar tu voz como un producto ya no te duele. Ya no te duele ni te pasan esas cosas de, “Ay, nunca voy a llegar a ser, ¿por qué no me quedo con los castings?”.

No, “Efectivamente ya entendí qué querían y el casting que yo mandé no iba por ahí”. Entender eso te ayuda también mucho, a confiar en tu voz y a saber hasta dónde sí y hasta dónde no.

[00:20:12] Nicky: Exacto, conocer tus limitaciones, también explotar tus características y todos tus atributos, ¿no?

[00:20:19] Ana: Es correcto, porque no todas las voces son para todo. Yo no puedo pretender hacer una voz de una niñita o de una chavita porque tengo la voz ronca y siempre la he tenido ronca. Yo ya conozco mi rango y de pronto sí me han mandado casting de 19 a 25 y yo evidentemente lo rechazo y digo, “No es mi rango de voz. Gracias por la invitación”.

[00:20:44] Nicky: Conociéndote bien también evitas la pérdida de tiempo, ¿no?

[00:20:48] Ana: Claro.

[00:20:49] Nicky: Tú dices, “Mejor me voy sobreseguro con las cosas que yo sé que puedo hacer y que puedo hacer muy bien, ¿para qué me doy de tumbos con cosas que realmente se alejan mucho de mis capacidades?”, y te pones en los zapatos del director o del productor y dices, “A ver, si yo escuchara este casting con este tipo de voz, pero mi personaje es esto, ¿qué puedo hacer?”.

[00:21:10] Ana: Exacto. También dentro de tus posibilidades no solamente quedarte con, “Ah, soy buena para esto”. En ese rango como producto también tendrías que tener la capacidad de ir jugando un poquito más, un poquito menos también para encontrar la versatilidad dentro de tu rango.

[00:21:31] Nicky: Cierto. Sí, totalmente. Vamos a hablar ahora un poquito más acerca de eso, conociendo ya nuestras limitaciones, nuestros atributos y todo, ¿cómo empezamos a desarrollar algo de lo que tú has hablado mucho en El Taller de las Voces, que es el brief? ¿Qué es el brief y cómo lo podemos desarrollar? Obviamente estos son webinars y clases que toman tiempo, pero si nos puedes resumir un poquito, ¿qué nos dirías?

[00:21:56] Ana: El brief es la cosa más importante de cualquier proyecto publicitario porque es una serie de preguntas bastante puntuales que te permiten conocer exactamente de qué va el producto, para qué y qué es lo que quieres hacer, porque ideas tenemos muchas todo el tiempo, pero cuando las aterrizas en un papel en blanco y negro se vuelven tangibles y ponerte a pensar en, “¿Para dónde voy?”.

Un brief básicamente es tu guía para lograr un objetivo. Básicamente es eso a través de responder preguntas muy puntuales, casi-casi en 360 grados porque tienes que hablar de tu producto, de los atributos, de las cosas que no tiene bien, de la competencia, del entorno, de muchísimas cosas. Esas son las preguntas que hay en un brief.

[00:22:51] Nicky: Es realmente como un buen examen de conciencia, de quién eres, qué puedes ofrecer y a quién estás beneficiando, ¿no?

[00:23:01] Ana: Lo que quieres lograr, creo que eso es la parte más importante de un brief. De hecho, se los he dicho en un webinar y lo comparto aquí con mucho gusto. Hay brief de veintitantas preguntas, brief de cinco preguntas, pero hay un brief de una sola pregunta, pregúntenselo ustedes como persona, producto o servicio, ¿qué es lo que quiero que la gente se quede pensando después de escuchar mi mensaje o lo que tengo que decir?

Si yo soy Nicky Mondellini y hago un spot de Nicky Mondellini, ¿qué estoy esperando que la gente piense después de escuchar eso? Que Nicky es buena onda, que no es buena onda, que es superprofesional, que no sé qué, esas cosas son las que respondes en un brief y te dan una dirección muy certera de para dónde ir y no perder el tiempo.

[00:23:59] Nicky: Claro. Eso tú lo puedes emplear ya en todas tus comunicaciones. Puede ser en el desarrollo de tu biografía cuando desarrollas un website, en el pequeño perfil que pones en redes sociales o en cualquier campaña de email masiva a donde vas a querer llegarle varios clientes, pero realmente presentarte con todas tus fortalezas y con realmente lo que eres y a lo que vas, ¿no?

[00:24:30] Ana: Exacto. Por eso siempre antes de llenar un brief lo que les digo es que hay que hacer un FODA, que es un ejercicio de fortalezas, debilidades, oportunidades y amenazas. Creo que esa es la parte primordial y en lo que te llevas posiblemente más tiempo en llenar porque ese es un clavado total y una inmersión al producto. Si yo voy a vender una taza, “A ver, la taza cómo es, qué tiene de bonito, qué colores, cuántas tazas hay así en el mercado, dónde la voy a vender”.

Igualito, pero es que eres tú, insisto, eres una persona. Siempre les digo que parecen clases de terapia, pero sí, acaba siendo una terapia porque tienes que meterte adentro y ser bien honesto contigo y decir, “¿Cuáles son mis fortalezas? ¿Cuáles son mis debilidades?”, decírtelo, buscarle y rascarle y de pronto te encuentras cosas que no te gustan, pero tienes que tenerlas enfrente y ser superhonesto.

Porque como siempre digo, un producto o un servicio que va basado en una mentira o en algo que no es cierto es como una mesa de tres patas y tarde o temprano se va a caer. Para poder sostener todo eso tienes que ser bien honesto. A lo mejor de tus debilidades que no quieres que nadie las sepa, pero tienes que conocerlas y al conocerlas ya verás la manera, en tu estrategia, de que esas no se vean, pero si no las conoces algún día van a salir al aire, algún día. [ríe]

[00:26:06] Nicky: Exacto. Conocer todo eso y esas debilidades a lo mejor decir, “Okay, bueno, ahí están, sé que están ahí, pero voy a resaltar más todas estas cualidades que son lo que pueden finalmente hacer que un cliente tome la decisión de por lo menos darme una oportunidad”, ¿no?

[00:26:23] Ana: Exactamente. Aparte, las fortalezas y las debilidades es una cuestión interna, de tu persona, son intrínsecas, como le llamamos en publicidad, y las amenazas y las oportunidades son extrínsecas. Muchas veces esas debilidades se pueden convertir en una oportunidad porque es un camino que puedes resolver o que puedes decir tomar acción de cambiar eso y se vuelve una oportunidad y a veces una fortaleza se puede convertir en una amenaza.

Eso es lo que me encanta del FODA, que vas cruzando todas estas informaciones y tienes clarísimo quién eres, lo que tienes para ofrecer y a quién vas dirigido y ya con toda esa cantidad de información llenar un brief te va a ser muy fácil.

[00:27:20] Nicky: Claro. Ese es el primer paso. Tú obviamente estás preparando un curso especial para el desarrollo del FODA, ¿es primero un curso donde ya te avocas solo en el FODA y luego otro curso más adelante para el brief o es todo dentro del mismo curso?

[00:27:42] Ana: Es dentro del mismo curso porque es como enseñarte a hacer un FODA, que es donde más nos tardamos. De ahí el objetivo de este curso es que tú salgas con un brief de estos de los grandotes, no de los chiquitos, de los grandotes, llenado y que el día que tú quieras hacer promoción de ti misma y que quieras ya empezar a generar tu marca, que quieras hacer un logo, que quieras tener un nombre artístico, que quieras tener una página web, una vCard o artículos promocionales.

Lo que se te ocurra para promocionarte a ti como marca, sepas exactamente por dónde y a tus proveedores les puedas dar ese brief y hacer equipo con tu proveedor para llegar a un objetivo que les beneficia a ambos y que realmente lo que la gente vea te refleje, porque claro que tú lo que quieres es tener clientes que te estén buscando justo a ti. Por eso siempre digo que hay que ser honestos.

[00:28:41] Nicky: Así es. Fíjate que eso a mí me ha tocado hacerlo en dos ocasiones donde he hecho y rehecho mi página web y a la persona que contrato me mandan un cuestionario muy extensivo acerca de todas estas cosas, más otras más específicas, entre colores, “Dame, por ejemplo, dos o tres sitios web de otras personas que te gustan o que admiras”, etcétera.

Yo creo que si se hace eso de primera instancia, así como tú lo dices tal cual y lo tienes como ejercicio para ti y ya lo vas desarrollando, a la hora que tú vayas a contratar a alguien, que ya estés listo para hacer tu sitio web, ya se los vas a pasar y tú ya te vas a ahorrar todo ese tiempo de primera instancia.

[00:29:28] Ana: Claro. Es infinitamente más fácil también para el proveedor porque yo estoy segura que cualquier proveedor a quien tú contratas lo que quiere es darte un excelente servicio. Si de pronto tú no fuiste claro con tus instrucciones y lo que te regresa de lo que tú le pediste no te está gustando no funciona para nadie. Tú vas a estar muy enojado como cliente y tu proveedor va a estar frustrado porque va a decir, “Híjole, es que no le atino a lo que quiere esta persona y no le estoy dando el servicio”, y todo sale mal. Invertir tiempo en un FODA primero y después llenando un brief es tiempo que te vas a ahorrar a la hora de solicitar algún artículo promocional o lo que tú vayas a querer hacer porque va a ser más rápido y van a lograr hacer un equipo. Tú dices, “Ay, me pasé tres meses haciendo el FODA y el brief“, pero a la hora que tengas tu sitio web le van a entender rapidísimo al proveedor y van a estar peloteando ideas, “Hacemos esto y hacemos lo otro”, porque le estás permitiendo conocer qué es lo que necesitas.

También para él va a ser increíble podértelo dar y que te vea la cara de guao. Es un ganar-ganar y te ahorras mucho dinero, se los juro, porque luego los cambios te los cobran. [ríe] ¿Para qué pagas cambios? Hazlo bien desde el principio.

[00:30:52] Nicky: Exacto. Si tú ya de entrada vas a lo seguro porque ya lo has analizado, ya lo has estudiado, ya te has tomado todo ese tiempo para poner cada una de esas cosas que te describen, de lo que quieres y todo esto, obviamente ya va a ser mejor hecho desde un principio. No hay nada peor que te dan algo, lo ves y dices, “No, es que eso no va conmigo”.

[00:31:15] Ana: “Ay, eso no soy yo. No me gusta”.

[00:31:16] Nicky: Exacto.

[00:31:18] Ana: Aparte, la verdad es que cuando lo tienes muy claro es también superbonito hacer este partner con tu proveedor. No es que, “Yo te estoy contratando y tú me das un servicio”. No, son un equipo. El pelotear con tu proveedor y que él te proponga, “Oye, Ana, y ¿si le ponemos esto y si le ponemos lo otro?”, y tú, “No, fíjate que ese color no, pero esto que me propones está bien padre”. Ese peloteo de hacer un equipo para un solo objetivo es un proceso encantador y es mucho más divertido la verdad.

[00:31:55] Nicky: Sí, la verdad, y muy interesante, todo mundo acaba feliz porque realmente fue un trabajo en equipo y ya no es, “Sí, a ver, aquí está toda mi información, a ver, sorpréndeme”.

[00:32:06] Ana: Aparte, se convierte en tu proveedor de cabecera, que aparte es delicioso decir, “Uy, se me atoró esto. Fulanito, ¿me ayudas?”, porque ya sabe y él ganó un cliente para siempre. Todos ganan.

[00:32:23] Nicky: Sí, un cliente y una recomendación, qué rico trabajar con la gente con la que has desarrollado esa relación de trabajo tan de confianza y muy bonito.

[00:32:34] Ana: Sí, porque te quitas problemas de enfrente.

[00:32:36] Nicky: Sí, totalmente. Ana, ¿tú por qué crees que sea tan difícil para los que somos emprendedores creativos el realmente verlo así, hacer nuestro marketing, salir de nosotros mismos y vernos como un negocio?

[00:32:53] Ana: Creo que justo por eso, porque acaba siendo una persona, en este caso, de locución. Es infinitamente más fácil hacer todo lo que les cuento del FODA y el brief de un producto físico tangible a de una persona. Cuando piensas en los servicios que tú quieres ofrecer, como tú los ofreces, no hay de otra y tienes que voltearte a ver a ti. Yo creo que a la gente eso es lo que le da un poquito de miedo.

Creo que es la primer barrera, de que, “Ay, no, que todo mundo piense que soy perfecto, divino”, y no es cierto. No eres ni perfecto ni divino, pero tienes muchas cosas que la gente puede comprar y que la gente necesita, pero tienes que ser honesto. Creo que una barrera es esta de, “Me tengo que voltear a ver a mí primero”, y es donde tal vez la gente se detiene un poquito porque da miedo, por supuesto que da miedo.

[00:33:51] Nicky: Sí, da miedo el hablar porque también tenemos tanto miedo al rechazo. Somos nosotros, aquí soy yo y esto es lo que puedo hacer. Lo hago con tanto gusto, con tanta pasión que un rechazo sí es–

[00:34:07] Ana: Duele, por supuesto que duele. No es lo mismo, insisto, con la taza. “Ahí está la taza en el anaquel, no la compraron”, “Bueno, llegará otro y la comprará”, pero cuando eres tú y no te– De verdad es que es muy complicado no sentirte mal.

[00:34:21] Nicky: También eso de que nos cuesta trabajo hablar bien de nosotros mismos, el realmente plantear todas nuestras habilidades tal cual son para atraer un cliente porque caemos un poquito en eso de que, “Ay, pero es que no quiero molestar, no quiero ser presumido. No está bien que yo me esté vanagloriando tanto y todo”. Yo creo que si lo vemos como tú estás diciendo, vete como un negocio, despégate un poquito y di, “Ah, okay, estos son los servicios que le van a funcionar perfecto a este cliente para este producto”.

Ya cuando empiezas a tocar puertas tú ya vienes desde ese punto de vista de, “Oye, ¿sabes qué? Yo puedo ser la persona que te resuelve un problema porque tengo tanta experiencia, he hecho estas cosas. Mira, esto es lo que puedo hacer”, y así tranquilamente te puedo decir, “Puedes confiar en mí porque yo te voy a resolver esto”.

[00:35:13] Ana: Exactamente, pero sí, insisto, al tomarte como un producto y verte como un producto te ayuda mucho, aunque hayas tenido que hacer todo este clavado interno, pero al final en la práctica te ayuda mucho a no sentirte mal con los rechazos o con las cosas que no salgan bien porque al final no todo mundo compra los mismos productos. Es así y ya, como que se te quita ese peso de encima.

Aparte, como artistas de la voz también somos como supersensibles, también eso es una realidad como buenos actores porque estás sacando los sentimientos a flor de piel en cada interpretación que haces. Estás muy metido en ese coso. Sí, es muy difícil no tomártelo personal, pero al poderlo separar y verlo como un negocio es más fácil que no te sientas mal.

[00:36:08] Nicky: Así es. También uno no necesita tener una gran experiencia, muchísimo o un currículum enorme para poder desarrollar tu brief, desde primero tu FODA y después tu brief porque si no empiezas bien, aunque sea que hayas hecho nada más tres trabajos, pero ya decidiste que tu camino es ese y que vas a empezar tu negocio de locución, tienes que hacerlo porque si no cómo vas a ampliar ese currículum precisamente.

[00:36:36] Ana: Exacto. No, además, como insisto, se trata siempre de honestidad, aunque hayas hecho un solo trabajo o no, lo primero es echarte un clavado para dentro de ti. La experiencia no importa, más bien que seas honesto contigo mismo, de eso se trata.

[00:36:53] Nicky: No, definitivamente. ¿Cuándo empiezan esos cursos que vas a dar? ¿Lo estás preparando ahorita en El Taller de las Voces?

[00:37:01] Ana: Exacto. Ahorita justo estoy dando un cursito de FODA y lo voy a ampliar a que sea pegado de FODA con brief. Yo creo que en un par de meses ya estaremos lanzando ese curso para quien lo quiera tomar. La verdad es que sí te voy a contar un poquito de dónde salió esto. Cuando empezó la pandemia, yo soy alumna de Martha Escobar y estaba en la comunidad de El Taller de las Voces.

Cuando empieza la pandemia, Martha, en su generosidad, porque ella es muy generosa, de pronto dio un curso de locución por Zoom gratis. No saben de verdad lo que sentí como de agradecimiento. Me conmovió muchísimo, me conmovió profundamente esa actitud de ella de aportar algo en un momento tan complicado como el lockdown cuando acababa de empezar.

Cuando acaba el curso, que eran cuatro clases, le dije, “Martha, gracias, qué bonito, ¿qué podemos hacer?”, y dijo, “Sí, qué bueno que lo mencionas, gracias. ¿Qué van a aportar ustedes?”, y yo, “Ups”. Fue donde me quedé pensando y dije, “Yo no tengo tanto tiempo ni tanta experiencia de locución, pero sí tengo mucha experiencia en publicidad, de eso sí sé. ¿Cómo adapto todos mis conocimientos a los locutores?”.

Le escribí a Martha y le ofrecí empezar a hablar de este tipo de cosas, del proceso creativo para que los locutores entendieran toda la otra parte de sus clientes y así empezó. Así fue como empecé a adaptar todos estos conocimientos publicitarios a una persona y específicamente a un locutor. Ya después de dar los webinars, de hablar de cien cosas se nos ocurrió que donde más se puede ayudar es en crear este taller para que los locutores tengan bien presente quiénes son, para dónde van tus objetivos y puedan crecer sus negocios.

[00:39:01] Nicky: Sí, porque realmente es un tema que nos cuesta trabajo abordar o finalmente acabamos contratando el servicio que no realmente sea el más adecuado para nosotros o contratas a alguien que no tiene experiencia en saber promocionar artistas de la voz.

Si lo haces a partir de ese punto de vista, tú que ya tienes experiencia en los dos lados, eso ya es una gran ventaja porque ya va más directo, más personalizado, ya como locutores sabemos ahora sí, “Okay, ¿qué tengo que hacer? ¿Por dónde me voy? Desarrollo todo esto y así ayudo a la persona que me va a ayudar a crear mi sitio web a que sepa exactamente qué es lo que necesito como artista de la voz, a qué clientes me quiero dedicar, cuáles son el tipo de trabajos a los que me quiero yo avocar”.

Porque también queremos atraer ciertos tipo de clientes según el nicho que más nos gusta, por ejemplo, [00:40:00] o según de lo que quisiéramos hacer más, pero que no hemos encontrado todavía esa oportunidad porque a lo mejor no sabemos cómo buscar esos clientes, dónde tocar esas puertas, pero todo esto obviamente nos abre el panorama y nos dice, “Ya sé hacía dónde va mi caminito”.

[00:40:18] Ana: Lo más padre es que si alguien escucha tu publicidad, ve tu página web, tu vCard, algo que tenga que ver con tu marca o con lo que tú estás promocionando de ti mismo, acuérdese que trabajamos con la voz y de pronto te conoce en persona y se da cuenta que lo que percibió es exactamente lo que hay. No saben qué orgullo y qué satisfacción tanto para uno que ofrece el servicio como para el cliente porque él te buscó porque eso es lo que necesita. Eso es una relación ganar-ganar increíble.

[00:40:52] Nicky: Sí, totalmente. Ana, ¿dónde te puede encontrar la gente para inscribirse en ese curso, para lo de El Taller de las Voces? Yo obviamente voy a poner la liga del El Taller de las Voces en las notas del programa, pero ¿esa es la mejor manera para inscribirse?

[00:41:07] Ana: Sí, la verdad es que vamos a lanzarlo a través de El Taller de las Voces. Yo la verdad es que no soy mucho de redes sociales, soy de las que la chismea, pero no publico mucho. Eso sí, me pueden encontrar en mi email directo, contesto todo, siempre contesto, estoy muy atenta a los emails y es santanuca12@gmail.com.

[00:41:28] Nicky: También lo voy a poner en las notas del programa. Esa es la mejor manera de ponerse en contacto contigo. ¿Das asesorías personales también?

[00:41:35] Ana: Sí, también. Además del curso, por supuesto que asesorías personales también.

[00:41:40] Nicky: Esas asesorías, ¿las tienes así en paquetes de dos, tres, cinco asesorías o es según el grado de experiencia?

[00:41:48] Ana: Depende de lo que esté buscando el cliente. Yo sí tengo un paquete que es el FODA y el brief con las preguntas específicas, con los ejercicios que hay que hacer, con las preguntas, tareas, sí dejo tareas, ese tipo de cosas, pero a lo mejor alguien solamente querrá una asesoría de, “Oye, ¿cómo le hago? Me estoy atorando en esta parte, esto no lo entiendo”, y con muchísimo gusto.

[00:42:11] Nicky: Ana, muchísimas gracias por todos estos conocimientos que realmente son interesantísimos y muy buenos, indispensables aplicarlos en nuestra publicidad como locutores y en el desarrollo de nuestra marca personal. Realmente nos has dado aquí unas grandes joyas, casi que una masterclass acerca de qué tenemos que hacer.

[00:42:32] Ana: No, yo encantada de compartir. Al contrario, gracias por el espacio.

[00:42:37] Nicky: A ti. Muchas gracias. Estaremos pendientes de ese curso, también lo estaré anunciando más. Yo también tengo el gusto de ser una de las panelistas ahí en El Taller de las Voces con la sección de Creando el Podcast. Ahí afortunadamente te conocí y con mucho gusto seguir. Es una gran comunidad, como bien dices. Martita Escobar, que gracias a Dios ya la tuvimos también aquí como invitada en La Pizarra, ofrece muchísimo en El Taller de las Voces y es una gran, gran persona y gran profesional.

[00:43:11] Ana: Totalmente.

[00:43:13] Nicky: Ya saben, amigos, dónde comunicarse con Ana en su email y en El Taller de las Voces que voy a poner la liga. Cualquier pregunta, no duden en contactarla.

[00:43:24] Ana: Por supuesto. Muchas gracias.

[00:43:27] Mario Filio: Gracias por acompañarnos en La Pizarra. ¿Quieres escuchar más episodios? Visita www.lapizarrapodcast.com o nickymondellini.com/lapizarra donde podrás suscribirte al boletín mensual y tener acceso a los avances exclusivos de los nuevos episodios, así como recursos para tu negocio creativo. Sintonízate la próxima semana para otra interesante entrevista.

 

**Esta parte fue grabada al terminar la entrevista pero en la postproducción se incorporó dentro de la entrevista, ya que la transcripción se realizó antes de la edición final**

[00:44:02] Ana: Me interesa mucho que los productos que habemos como locutores sean lo más honestos posible. Eso no se consigue más que haciendo esa exploración y tener claro para dónde vas. Yo creo que mientras más honestos los productos son de mejor calidad.

[00:44:20] Nicky: Cierto, porque vas desmenuzando realmente, “Esta soy yo”, y el ser honesto con uno mismo te quita mucho peso de encima de saber, “¿Sabes qué? No tengo por qué mentir, no tengo por qué decir que soy esto cuando realmente no lo soy porque luego a lo mejor hasta voy a atraer el tipo de trabajo que no quiero atraer”.

[00:44:42] Ana: Cuando está esa honestidad mágicamente tu producto es de mejor calidad y los clientes que vas a atraer son los que están buscando eso. Decía Charlie la otra vez que me encantó, decía, “Mira, yo ya entendí, para hacer publicidad o para vender hay dos cosas que tú tienes que buscar en tus clientes, o qué placer les vas a dar o qué dolor les vas a ayudar a curar”.

[00:45:16] Nicky: Eso es muy bueno.

[00:45:17] Ana: Cuando lo dijo yo así de, “Charlie, nunca más lindo dicho. Está increíble lo que dijiste”. Lo ocupamos cuando dimos el webinar juntos, porque yo, “Charlie, cuéntales esto porque esto sí es de tu autoría, yo no me lo puedo adjudicar porque eso lo dijiste tú y es magistral”.

Es que es eso. Si tú no eres honesto, ¿cómo le vas a ayudar a alguien a resolver un problema, a quitarle un dolor o cómo le vas a dar un placer, sino es de verdad? Tu producto ya no va a estar tan lindo ni va a ser de calidad. Por eso la honestidad es básica, pero a la gente le da miedo.

[00:45:54] Nicky: Sí, nos da miedo. Nos da miedo abrir de repente eso porque son pasos que sí cuesta trabajo tomarlos, pero una vez que los empiezas a tomar ya te cambia el chip.

Yo lo vi también dentro de mí. Una vez que me empecé a ver como negocio empecé a ser mucho más clara en mi comunicación con las personas y en mi comunicación también con esa persona con quien hice mi último sitio web porque antes de eso me costó mucho, con los primeros websites era de que, “Ay, es que no sé qué decir, ¿cómo le hago? ¿Qué digo? ¿Qué tanto digo?”, empiezo a contar mi historia, “Bueno, sí, era una Luna llena cuando yo nací en un pequeño pueblo”, “No, vete al grano”.

[00:46:38] Ana: Lo que pasa es que de pronto se confunde esto de ser honesto y echarte un clavado para adentro como si te fueras a exponer y fueras a ser vulnerable. Eso no es cierto porque el que hace el FODA eres tú, de ti para ti y con esa información contestas un BRIEF, no es que tú le enseñes el FODA al proveedor, eso es para ti. No estás ni expuesto ni vulnerable ni nada, simplemente lo plasmas en unas preguntas de brief son honestos, es concreto, tiene un objetivo y es muy claro.

Yo veo que a la gente, “Ay, no, van a saber que soy bien flojo o van a saber–” Como que se sienten expuestos y vulnerables y no, es para ti.

[00:47:28] Nicky: Mientras más te conoces más sabes qué puedes ofrecer y de qué tipo de cosas te tienes que alejar o cuáles tengo que aprender a ser mejor.

[00:47:38] Ana: Exacto. De verdad que cuando te conoces de pronto dices, “Aquí hay una oportunidad de chamba que yo no me imaginé”.

[00:47:47] Nicky: Que no había explorado.

[00:47:49] Ana: “Resulta que soy bien buena para esto”, por echarle una rascadita.

[00:47:57] Nicky: Sí, totalmente.

Episode Summary

Robert Campbell, @808inc, talks about the use of humor in advertising, he is the director and creative director of 808, Inc Productions in Houston, a studio specializing in live-action and animation. He is also president of Wordwide Industries, where he writes for numerous ad agencies on regional and national accounts.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Alan Villatoro:

This is La Pizarra, a place where we explore creative minds in the entertainment industry on both sides of the mic and the camera. Here is your host, Nicky Mondellini.

Nicky Mondellini:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of La Pizarra. My name is Nicky Mondellini, and today we’re going to talk about the funny side of things when it comes to advertising. My guest is Robert Campbell. He is director and creative director of 808, Inc Productions in Houston. It’s a studio specializing in live action and animation. He is also president of Wordwide Industries, where he writes for numerous ad agencies on regional and national accounts.

Nicky Mondellini:

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Nicky Mondellini:

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Nicky Mondellini:

Robert Campbell has written for print, web, broadcast, outdoor bathroom walls and everything else, and has directed numerous commercials. In addition to receiving a Cannes Lions, his work has been featured in Ad Age, Creativity, Adweek, at Credit.com Top 10 TBS’s Funniest Commercials On Television and a BBC documentary on advertising. In addition to his day jobs, he speaks at schools and professional organizations around the country. His presentation I Smell Funny, talks about the use of humor in advertising. Robert, welcome to La Pizarra. How are you doing today?

Robert Campbell:

I’m doing wonderful.

Nicky Mondellini:

Wonderful. And we’re enjoying a very, very nice weather in Houston, now that the weather’s getting milder and cooler, so I can attest to that. We’re really enjoying nice weather. But anyway, well there’s so many things that I’d like to ask you, but I thought it would be a good place to start with the very beginning of your career. What was the project that just launched your career in this direction of advertising?

Robert Campbell:

Well, I don’t know that there was any one project, and it’s certainly not like I had a plan of any kind. My career trajectory has really been more of like a pinball. You come out of the shoot, and you know exactly where you’re going. And then you start bouncing into stuff and you end up just kind of ping ponging from one way to another. And then at some point, you fall off out of the game. But I’d have to probably go back to high school, really. My buddies and I would get together and we’d make these short skits using my dad’s Super 8 Camera, one of those old handheld soundless… I forget how much film they accommodated. I want to say it was like maybe 50 feet. It was basically four to five minutes of film.

Robert Campbell:

So we get together on weekends and we’d do parodies of Apocalypse Now, or Star Wars or whatever, or we do these short little skits. I grew up around SCTV and SNL and all that stuff. So I just love kind of that short format, fun joke-telling stuff. So I did that, and I guess my plan, and again it wasn’t really a plan, my thought was that I’d go into film school at high school. And what I ended up doing was getting into the radio television program at the University of Houston. And it was actually a lot of fun. It was not what I had in mind. It was, the program that they had at that time, was built around those big studio live production environments. So you had these huge Norelco cameras in the studio with the big gun turret cranks on them. And you had three of those in the studio, you had the camera operators in the studio, you had audio somewhere else on the premises, and then you had the big television control room with the technical director and the big death star switcher.

Robert Campbell:

And everything was live. All the projects were live. It’s like you get one run through as a practice thing, and then you’re on. And I kind of went into the program thinking, okay I had this image in my mind of what a writer/director was. And it was kind of that plus reality. It’s like everything happening live, everything goes wrong. And then you have to kind of factor into your workflow unexpected things, which will always happen. So like I said, I had this image in my mind of what a writer was and what a writer did. And this was, I guess being so close to reality, it was a lot sloppier than what I anticipated. But I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun.

Robert Campbell:

Now while I was going to school and studying all this stuff, I got a job. A friend of mine got me a job at a small ad agency. And when I say small ad agency, it’s one of those places where basically you come in and if you work there, you do everything. So I was there, I did dark room work. I did photography. I did videography. I was a writer. I was an illustrator, art director, production artist, even actor from time to time. It was-

Nicky Mondellini:

Wonderful.

Robert Campbell:

It wasn’t exactly… I’ve actually kind of worked in the industry for a while now. And the way that was done is really not the way it’s supposed to be done, kind of in that laboratory environment advertising. It was sloppy, and we did a lot of things that we weren’t supposed to do, probably put lives in danger. But it was a lot of fun and it was exciting. It was just kind of this whole thing of making stuff up on the fly. And it’s not going to be perfect, but you move on and you kind of adapt and accommodate. So as I was doing this, kind of working while I was going to school, I started thinking about the academic path I was taking. And I really started going back to what I was doing in high school with my friends, which is, that’s the sort of thing you do because you have fun doing it. And I have a very short attention span. And those 30 minutes or those five-minute movies we did when I was in high school, really meshed with the world of commercial advertising where really they’re like 30-second movies.

Nicky Mondellini:

And we are back after a little tech issue there. Connections sometimes fail that we get a little bit of a freeze, but that’s okay, and then we’re going through that. But anyway, you were saying about how your short attention span worked very well for those 30-second movies that are commercials. So tell me how you were really not only doing everything for it. You started writing more and more for it, and then trying to pack all of that attention and looking for the finer points when you’re doing a 30-second spot.

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. I have a short attention span, so I forgot whatever it was I was talking about. But yeah, as I was working while I was going to school in advertising, like I said, it dawned on me that that might be a little more appropriate, given that this whole very attractive notion to me of having these 30-second movies essentially was what a commercial is. You have a targeted goal, you have a really specific objective and you set off and you solve it. So I ended up switching my major at the University of Houston from radio television to journalism. At the time, they didn’t have an advertising program per se. So I went into journalism, and took what advertising classes they offered. And when I graduated, I had an internship here with a local agency and then later got a job with a local agency and worked my way up to writer, senior writer, creative director, director, and then whatever it is that I do now.

Nicky Mondellini:

Everything. You do everything, Robert. Well-

Robert Campbell:

Yeah, we all do.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes, we all do. It’s amazing how in this career, in show business, wherever you go, and you want to get to know a little bit more about what you’re doing, you’re not just content with showing up and learning your lines, being an actor, and then you start paying attention to the way things are produced. And then all of a sudden, well, you know what? You want to dip your toe into everything else. And then why not hold a camera or grab some cords or whatever, and then just say, “You know what? I think at some point, I might want to start my own company or partner up with someone.” The more you get into it, the more you are involved. You want to be part of everything that is being created. And that translates into wearing several hats. We have to learn a little bit of everything, right?

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we did a little bit of everything, definitely working at the smaller agency. I think at one point, I was tasked with removing a 100-foot beehive from the back of the building, which I don’t know how good that looks on a resume, but it was definitely interesting.

Nicky Mondellini:

So now, I want to ask you, in your presentation I Smell Funny, there’s something that you said that says, “When done right, humor is a powerful and surprisingly cost effective tool for differentiating a brand and connecting with customers.” Okay. So this is going to be a two-part question. First of all, what are the elements that make a good comedic spot, from your perspective?

Robert Campbell:

Well, okay. I’m going to give you a 50-part response to your two-part question, if I can keep the connection here. So yeah. When I was working at BBDO, every year, they would send down the super bowl reel of all the super bowl commercials they were doing. And I noticed that 95% of them were humor spots. And when Gene Hollister, who was the executive producer I worked with at BBDO, he broke off and started 808, a local production company. And I joined him, and we sort of took that philosophy without even understanding why or thinking about why we took that philosophy with us. And one of the things we encountered, when you’re at BBDO, like I said, it was sort of expected that if you were doing commercials, they were funny commercials, they were humorous commercials. And I say it was expected of us as part of the creative department, but it was also something that the clients we had tended to expect. A few questions were asked.

Robert Campbell:

And breaking off and taking that same proposition to a local market with local and regional clients where you don’t have these insanely high budgets, you get a little pushback. It’s like you’d present something that, “Oh, this here’s a funny spot.” And they’d look at you like you were an adorable puppy that has just crapped on their expensive Persian rug. It’s like, “Yeah, that’s really cute, but you’re not going to be doing that again.” So I started looking at it like why are we doing humor? Is this really the most responsible thing we can do as communicators to put together a humorous spot? Is this how we should be spending our clients’ money? And the more I thought about it, what is it that sells? It’s, as human beings, we tend to think of ourselves as rational beings.

Robert Campbell:

But I believe that our decisions are based almost entirely on emotions. And if there is a rational part, if there is a rational lobular in our brain, its only purpose is to take those emotional decisions that we make and rationalize them in such ways to make us think that, “Well, that was a smart decision I made.” I think we make emotional decisions and then we try to make sense of them later. But at any rate, it’s clear that emotion sells. Without digging too deep into the whole ancient Greek definitions of tragedy and comedy, tragedy is not the best way to sell urinary tract infection medication, for example.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. Definitely.

Robert Campbell:

Humor is, if I can carry that metaphor a little further, it’s like a Trojan horse. It’s a way of getting past that wall of consumer skepticism and deliver a message without all the burning and pillaging, so to speak.

Nicky Mondellini:

There you go. Yeah.

Robert Campbell:

But you were asking what are the elements of a good comedic spot. Yeah, there isn’t really one. It’s a whole chain of things. And I think one of the first ones, and as a creative person, this is almost sacrilegious to say, but money is kind of a big one. Starting off, what are your limitations? As an example, we had a client. I don’t want to name the client, but they had, let’s just call it a warehousing product that they were selling. And we had a creative concept that involved basically this store that was, instead of purchasing this product, they purchased a warehouse gorilla that did all of the work that this product was supposed to do, that was designed to do. And obviously, that did not work out well in the context of this commercial.

Robert Campbell:

So I think the tagline was this product is better than a warehouse gorilla. And we liked the idea, the client liked the idea. It looked really funny and effective on script. But we got into a situation where, “Okay. How much money do we have to do this?” And it was, I think we had $15,000 to pull this off. So obviously you can’t rent a gorilla for $15,000. You can possibly rent an animatronic suit for $15,000, but you’d have nobody to operate it, and you wouldn’t have any money to do anything else. So we ended up, at the end of the day, doing this compositing trick. And so I had this spot that basically it was a two-minute piece, I think. But we spent two minutes building up to this huge punchline, this huge reveal. And then we get to the reveal, and it falls flat.

Robert Campbell:

Now the client was happy with it, and it actually did the business objectives that were set out. It had actually accomplished those. But it was, as far as a creative spot or something that we would put on a reel, it was just, for us, it fell a little flat. So again, that’s the first question, is what’s the budget? What are the limitations of this project? If you’re doing a funny script… And I guess maybe just to back up a little bit on funny advertising, it’s really, I don’t want to kind of push it as funny advertising and refer to it as funny advertising, it’s really using an emotion to sell a product or using something that makes you feel good watching it. Some products lend themselves to more heartfelt executions, and a lot of them do that very well. I’m personally not very good at that. I tend to gravitate towards the humor, and yet I’m not really that funny of a person. I can’t tell a joke to save my life.

Robert Campbell:

But I’m really careful about referring to it as funny advertising. It’s that whole Joe Pesci thing. It’s like, “Funny how? How am I funny? What’s funny here?” And then I’ve been in situations with clients where you pitch something as a funny spot and they literally tell you, “I’m not here to make fun of my brand.” And what do you say at that point?

Robert Campbell:

So it’s really just emotion without the emotional investment, I guess. It’s strategically how I would put it. But anyway, like I said, money. I guess the second element would be script. It’s got to be a good script. And there’s a whole thing with that, working with actors in particular. I like to have in mind an actor. And honestly, every writer is sort of, in their own mind, they’re a failed actor. They’re performing their little screenplay in the theater of their own skull. But you write it to be performed. If you’re doing a commercial, you write it to be performed. And a lot of times I want to have that person in mind, as I’m writing it, which somehow, it’s almost like you’re pulling from them through the ether to write something, and then in turn, put that into the script and then give it back to them. But you have to have solid actors, solid performers. I’ve had really good actors take really bad scripts from me and turn them into something amazing and I get credit for it. But it’s total performance.

Robert Campbell:

It always helps with advertising in particular, if you’re relevant. You’re not just doing something for the sake of humor, you’re doing something on the commercial side of art. You need to be relevant. We’ve all had the experience where you think of a really funny spot, but you can’t remember the client that it was for, which kind of defeats the purpose of selling it in the first place.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, for sure.

Robert Campbell:

I think Geico, they have consistently done really good work for years. They’ve associated with the brand solidly. One of my favorite spots of all time was the old FedEx spot, the fast talker, John Moschitta, I think, the fast talking guy with FedEx. Anyway, if you haven’t seen this spot-

Nicky Mondellini:

I remember that one I was…

Robert Campbell:

You were?

Nicky Mondellini:

I was probably not in the US yet.

Robert Campbell:

Well, Google it. It’s really funny. But at any rate, you have to be relevant. You have to sort of link with the brand and the mind. Of course, you have to be funny, and funny is a real subjective thing. What’s funny today will probably not be funny next week. Again, I’ve done so many things that just make me cringe now. I remember back when we were doing campaigns for a large oil and gas client. One of the comments I got from one of our clients was, after presenting a spot, they said, “Okay. I was asking for Bob Hope funny. But you’ve given me Milton Berle funny.” And I had no idea what he meant at the time, and I’m still not sure I know what he meant by that, but oh well.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. Brand of humor, he wanted probably a little bit more slap sticky, or?

Robert Campbell:

Maybe.

Nicky Mondellini:

Who knows. Who knows. Yeah.

Robert Campbell:

It could be it.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. And I see, a lot of the times, irony plays a big part in humor, in putting something through, trying to think strong emotions are there, are present, and that people draw from or place themselves in that spot, and they’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s right,” because it’s very ironic. And then immediately, they relate to it and then they think of a situation of theirs. But still, like you said, it has to relate to the product. You still need to remember the name of the product, right?

Robert Campbell:

Yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

So what are-

Robert Campbell:

If you can relate to somebody’s emotional experience or emotional history, and relate to a product, you’ve done your job.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, definitely. And what are some of the hardest things to try to sell to a client? You mentioned the budget, of course. But also, do you find that there’re problems, or maybe just obstacles with, I don’t know, like frame of mind, maybe they’re a little bit too conservative? Like you come straight out of the box with really outrageous ideas, even if they’re within budget, but that you might find that wall of, they’re they want to keep to be more conservative or they don’t want to offend certain people. How do you handle those situations?

Robert Campbell:

Well, you have to sort of take them on a case by case basis. A lot of it deals with you have to factor in how… When you’re presenting an idea, there are a certain number of blanks that, who you’re presenting to, are going to have to fill in on their own. Now, some people think conceptually, we’ve had clients that you can give them a one minute set up on something and they exactly have a clear picture in their mind of what it’s going to be. And a lot of clients literally need every step sort of explained and illustrated. Sometimes, you go in with what we call a key frame, just a single frame representing a mood or a vibe even, and then you just kind of walk through or perform the spot.

Robert Campbell:

Other times, you need a fleshed out storyboard. And we used to sort of have a formula for doing it the same way each time. But over the years, I’ve come to realize that certain clients, if you show them too much, they’ll get in their mind that it needs to be a certain way. And any variation from that, you’re going to run into some problems down the road. And we were talking, I think offline earlier about trends and stuff. One of the trends I’ve seen in the past 10 to 15 years is just the level of involvement at every step of the process with clients. And collaboration really is great. But there’s a bad side to that too. Particularly if they have a hard time seeing where you’re going to end up, point A or point B might scare the heck out of them before they get to the end of the assembly line.

Robert Campbell:

We had a television spot we did many years ago, and in the spot, we had a couple of mechanics. And they were not for the client we were representing. This was sort of the problem-solution thing. “Don’t take your car to these guys, take it to these guys.” So we needed a couple of Numbskulls country mechanics to sort of do what they do, to show the problem part of the equation. And so we had a script, we had a storyboard, and it was pretty straightforward. Conceptually, if I was explaining the concept of the spot, I don’t think it would’ve changed much.

Robert Campbell:

But what we ended up doing was we brought in some actor performers. These were improvisational actors. I think at least one of the guys was a former grounding. They possibly both were. But we brought these guys in, and we shot the boards, the first part of the day, and the client was there. Of course, the clients are always there on the shoot. And they signed off on everything. And always at some point in the day, everybody starts checking their voicemail, and they pay a little less attention to what’s going on. So what we ended up doing is we set these improvisational actors, performers, we set them up, in this garage, and let the cameras roll and just kind of let them riff off of each other. And we captured just all kinds of craziness on film.

Robert Campbell:

And when we got it back, the spots we cut looked nothing like the spots we had boarded. And then again we had that, we had our bases covered. But by the time we presented everything to the client, they were ecstatic about it. They loved it. And it was something that even us as the creative team couldn’t have anticipated doing.

Nicky Mondellini:

Wow, that’s wonderful, when that thing happens and things just flourish in an unexpected way. That’s amazing.

Robert Campbell:

Yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

Okay. So now I’m going to go back to the second part of that initial question, which was, is there a wrong way, or what are the wrong ways to do comedy? Which you sort of alluded to, but more specifically the big no-nos. “If you want to do a comedic spot, stay away from this.” Is there anything you can think of?

Robert Campbell:

Oh, yeah. I think my answer for this would be a lot shorter. It’s if it makes you laugh, it’s funny. And if it doesn’t-

Nicky Mondellini:

Don’t.

Robert Campbell:

That’s really the simple way out. Like I said, it’s between the writing and the performance and understanding the limitations, the production limitations, the financial limitations, being confident in the process and maybe sticking to the plan as much as you can, but being open to serendipity, the unexpected. Not just being open to it, but just embracing it. I was talking about the two guys we brought in. And we asked the guy during the presentation or during the shoot, we asked the guy if he knew any stupid tricks. And he actually did this really stupid trick. I’m not going to say what it is, but you can go to 808inc.com and look at the spot, and you can see the stupid trick that he does.

Nicky Mondellini:

What is the name of that spot, to identify?

Robert Campbell:

I believe it’s something like maybe dipsticks. It’s for Texaco Xpress Lube.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, okay.

Robert Campbell:

But la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la, where was I? Oh yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. The stupid tricks.

Robert Campbell:

Stupid tricks. That is a question that we figured it’s good to ask any actor in advance of a production to, if they have any stupid tricks in their portfolio, to haul them out.

Nicky Mondellini:

Just to incorporate. Well, that’s good. And I guess it’s going back to do not be too strict, and let nice and unexpected things come through, because you might end up just finding out a lot more than you were expecting that you can integrate into the spot and just make it so much more interesting.

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. And it can drive line producers crazy to do things last minute. But they’re going to happen anyway. The unexpected’s going to happen anyway. You might as well get your mind okay with rolling with it, because you never know. And it may work and it may not. Don’t be afraid. Okay, you’re talking about the nots. I think don’t be afraid to try something, if you’re able to, and don’t be afraid to admit that something that you thought was going to work isn’t going to work, because from personal experience, I’ve stuck with things much longer than I should have.

Nicky Mondellini:

Well, definitely. Yeah, I can see how that can work. On one hand, you just want to follow with whatever you had written and you want to follow that line, but keeping an open mind and just letting things come through. Now, I want us to take a look at this spot that you sent me. I love it. Personally, I think it’s really hilarious, and it’s called Poodle Pants. So let’s take a little pause here, and I’m going to insert it, and then we’ll talk about it.

Audio:

I’ll take them.

Audio:

Have you picked out the pants?

Audio:

The pants?

Audio:

For the poodle.

Audio:

The poodle needs pants?

Audio:

Of course, the poodle needs pants.

Audio:

But he’s a poodle.

Audio:

Is there a problem?

Audio:

The gentleman doesn’t think the poodle needs pants.

Audio:

Trust us, this poodle needs pants.

Audio:

But he’s a poodle.

Audio:

Without pants, do yourself a favor, get the poodle some pants.

Audio:

Tired of buying stuff you don’t need? Teligistics takes the confusion out of phone company rape plans. It’s what you need, and only what you need.

Nicky Mondellini:

Okay. So Poodle Pants is hilarious and those-

Robert Campbell:

Oh, thank you.

Nicky Mondellini:

… actors are just phenomenal. They’re phenomenal, and you see the intention of it. And you make a really good point, it’s like definitely don’t let yourself be sold into things that you don’t really need. But the way that you express it there, how did that concept come about with the Poodle Pants?

Robert Campbell:

Well, okay. Before we get into that, do you remember the name of the advertiser or the client, the product?

Nicky Mondellini:

It was… Oh my goodness. That’s a good point.

Robert Campbell:

I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to put you on the spot.

Nicky Mondellini:

Insurance company? No. No. No. Was it like an insurance company?

Robert Campbell:

It was Teligistics, and it was, I believe, a company that simplified rate plans. And I didn’t mean to put you on the spot because honestly, the only reason I remember it was because I did it, and I looked at it. But-

Nicky Mondellini:

And the name was on the script.

Robert Campbell:

And, I don’t know if you noticed, that was my voiceover at the end of that. But if-

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, that’s right. Yeah.

Robert Campbell:

If I was going to critique that spot, and I know that you liked it and thank you so much, I actually do like the spot too, but I do think if I was to critique it, it doesn’t really make that connection with the client. It’s probably one of those sort of nebulous value propositions that it’s like, this is a weird situation. Here’s a much simpler and easier situation. So that said, I didn’t mean to poodle poop on my own spot, but there you go.

Nicky Mondellini:

Nice one.

Robert Campbell:

What were your questions on that? It was a fun one to do, for sure.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, the concept, just coming up with a concept, because I think it’s brilliant.

Robert Campbell:

Well, thank you so much. And it was a fun script, it was a fun spot. We pitched it to the client, and then the client decided that was not the direction they wanted to go in. I’m trying to think if we even did anything for this particular client. But we ended up producing this piece on our own without a client, just because we liked it so much. The actors were great in it. And actually, the director of that spot is the customer. We cast a number of actors for that role, and couldn’t quite get what we were looking for. And then the director, who is also an actor, and is also, I believe he was also a former grounding Steve Burrows, an amazing director, we actually talked him into playing the part of the customer in that.

Robert Campbell:

But it’s sort of multipurpose created. One of the thoughts was we’d produce the spot and then take it back to the client later and they’d be so compelled to go with it that it would eventually run, but they still decided against running it and it broke our hearts. So sad.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh man.

Robert Campbell:

Because it’s got a dog in it.

Nicky Mondellini:

And you got a great demo.

Robert Campbell:

Oh yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, yeah.

Robert Campbell:

And you can’t go wrong when you put a dog in something. And you put pants on that dog? Come on. Come on, that’s-

Nicky Mondellini:

And glitzy pants at that, definitely.

Robert Campbell:

Glitzy pants, for sure.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh yeah. You have all of the elements there, and you hit a lot of different demographics, the animal lovers. And as I mentioned there, I know a lot of people who would actually buy pants for their poodles, that like to dress up their dogs. And so why not. But yeah, it goes to show that they’re so serious about, “Get the pants. You got to get the pants.” And yeah, it’s funny you are putting that kind of a situation, and then it happens many times where they sell you the insurance for that. And then you get the added services and this and that. And they try to muscle their way into telling you, you’re going to need all of those things when you actually don’t. So I really personally think it does make a point.

Robert Campbell:

Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

Nicky Mondellini:

Sorry about [inaudible].

Robert Campbell:

I’m probably just being… I’m just a downer. I’m a downer, sometimes. I will say this, since this is a podcast for actors, we did provide direction on the casting for that particular spot. But each of the actors, definitely the actors we ended up going with, they brought a little more backstory, I guess, to the performance or to the audition. So when you’re presenting an idea, or at least when I’m presenting an idea, sometimes I talk fast for one thing, but I sometimes tend to plow through a script without going into great deal of explanation on their motivations and backs stories and everything.

Robert Campbell:

But each of those actors brought in kind of a different perspective. There’s the kid, he’s obviously new at the job and probably a little self-conscious. He’s encountering a new situation and he doesn’t know what to do. And then the manager comes in, and he’s been around, he’s confident with little sales, maybe he can probably smooth this situation over. But then we have the muscle come in. He’s kind of the bad boy. I don’t know if this is going to get violent at some point, but if this guy’s not open to getting the poodle some pants, then maybe we can do something about it. We can do a little persuasion, making a poodle offer he can’t refuse.

Robert Campbell:

But like I was going to say, all these guys brought that to the audition, and it wasn’t something we put into the profile when we were casting that. And I really appreciated that attention to detail. So as an actor, bringing that to an audition, sometimes assume that the writer may not have a clear idea in mind. Plus it in any way you can.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. So that’s a nice segue into my next question, is how do approach that or what do you look for specifically when you cast, when you put the specifications and then when you’re looking at people and how they approach it, what things are you looking for? Comedic timing, as much as what else they can bring to the audition?

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. I guess comedic timing is kind of a big catchall. It helps again, if the writer has kind of a clear idea of what the story is, and you have an actor who gets that. And as a writer and an advertiser, I try to put as much of that into a description or explanation as possible. You can get past that point where you’re over guiding or over directing something that needs to happen organically at some point. I don’t want to… Again, I think embracing the unexpected also includes what an actor is going to bring to the role. So I appreciate it. And you’re not always going to have an opportunity to put a lot of backstory into a character or an announcer, if it isn’t a straight announcer, if you’re doing some sort of a performance based commercial. It’s not always something that’s needed, but if it’s not needed, they may not be looking for it, and it may kind of subtly sneak in and overwhelm them.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. So then that’s the thing. It’s like you don’t always know how much you can bring to whatever they tell you or the casting director tells you, “Do this, do that,” and you don’t always have all of the backstory. So sometimes it’s good. Sometimes they even send us the storyboard and then you get the big picture. But a lot of the times, you only get half of the information. So it’s a little bit harder to come out and just improvise things. But a good point would be to maybe don’t hold back or don’t be afraid to show a little bit more, to create more of your own backstory and see if that maybe sheds light into other things. And the director can see other things that he might have not been expecting that he can use.

Robert Campbell:

Right. Yeah, there are obviously production tricks you can fall on when you get to the point where you’re actually shooting something. But in an audition tape, it’s usually pretty simple and straightforward. You’ve got a consumer camera on one end and a couple of chairs set up in a studio on the other. So really, it’s all on the actor to kind of put it all out there. The interesting little backstory on the two guys, the dipsticks, the two guys at the car shop or whatever, we had those actors show up on set that day. And one of them seemed like a normal guy, talking with everyone, kind of interacting with everyone. Seemed like just a regular guy.

Robert Campbell:

And then the second guy just kind of stayed off in a corner by himself talking to himself, kind of looking at stuff, spilled his coffee a few times. And at the end of the day, both of them did a fantastic job. The second guy, as it turns out, was he was getting into character, kind of a method actor. And it just showed two completely different approaches to performance, which I thought was interesting. Like I said, they both did a great job, but it was just two completely different approaches to it.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, exactly. And you don’t always know how much you’re going to have to prepare. But yeah, it’s always really interesting what comes out and the unexpected things. And in that sense, when you have the client there and he’s present, because they don’t always come for the whole shoot, but when they’re there and they start proposing a little too much, does it ever get on your nerves or how do you handle that sort of situation when you know they’re maybe steering it in the wrong direction that it’s going to collide a little bit with the original story or the new things that are coming out that you say, “That’s going to be even better?” So how do you handle those?

Robert Campbell:

It’s a balancing act. I’m always open to new interpretations, but there are limitations, there’re physical limitations. You start running over time on a production and then it gets to be, is it that important to get this, that it’s going to sacrifice us getting the next shot or the next two shots or whatever. And you could also get to a point with an actor where it’s tough. One of the toughest things is you’re not… One of the reasons I enjoyed making Poodle Pants was that we didn’t have a client breathing down our neck on that shoot. It was just us. And it was funny or it wasn’t funny. And it was a pretty tough crowd. So we just kept at it until we got it.

Robert Campbell:

And we didn’t have any other weird considerations we had to deal with. And I say weird considerations like they’re not valid. They are. It’s the client’s dime. They’re spending the money on this. And it’s not just funny. It helps that it’s funny, but the main point is that it’s selling something. It’s getting a message out there. I’ve wondered off topic. What point was I going to make, Nicky? I forgot. It was important.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. It’s just about how do you handle it when the client is there and he’s probably not letting you do the full on take. Like they want to steer things in a different way-

Robert Campbell:

Yeah, it’s delicate.

Nicky Mondellini:

… and it’s aligning with your whole idea.

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. It’s a delicate process, of course. And at some point, I think it gets to be obvious when you’re not getting what you need. You’re literally just kind of beating down an actor, trying to get them to do something a certain way that may not even be right. I tend to respect the actor a lot, particularly if, number one, we selected them for a reason, and number two, if it’s somebody who’s put some thought into the backstory, into the history of this character, what their motivations are. That counts for something. If that’s what they’re drawing for their performance, it’s valid. So yeah, it’s a tight rope. At some point, you’re just kind of like, “Well, that was good. We’ll look at it later and see what it feels like in the edit.” And then reality sets in where, okay if we want to get the rest of the schedule done, then we need to move forward.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, exactly. Is there something that has made a difference in the way that you’ve achieved success in your career?

Robert Campbell:

Have I? Have I achieved success? That was a trick question.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes, you have.

Robert Campbell:

That was a tricky answer.

Nicky Mondellini:

You have a success…

Robert Campbell:

I would say yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

I would say yes you have.

Robert Campbell:

I would say actually yes. And this goes all the way back early on where any creative person feels this, whether you’re a writer, whether you’re a designer, an art director, artist, actor, you feel kind of that block, that creative block, whether it’s a blank sheet of paper or whatever it is, this idea that you have to create something, and that it’s all on you. I think what’s made a huge difference for me, and I have that, by the way, I think everyone kind of does, everyone’s intimidated by that blank sheet of paper and you have to put something on it, especially if you’ve got a deadline breathing down your neck, but what’s helped me in that approach was I think the realization that it’s… I think creativity is kind of a misused and misunderstood word. Ultimately, and this is my personal philosophy, there’s probably a lot of talented people who would disagree with me, but I don’t look at it as creating something. You’re not literally playing God. You’re not creating something from nothing.

Robert Campbell:

We all draw from our personal experiences, the environment, books we’ve read, things we’ve watched on TV and at theater, relationships, everything. We’re drawing on this vast reservoir of experience. And if you’re predisposed to being a creative person or someone who does that professionally, you’re going to form opinions naturally. You’re going to have things that you like and things that you don’t like. “I like what this musician did in this song.” And that’s, you’re drawing necessarily from that experience. Trees don’t grow in mid-air. You’re drawing from a wealth of experience. And it’s kind of like the chimpanzees. They’ll put the blocks in the enclosure with the chimpanzees and they’ll stack the blocks in a certain way to get to the banana. They’re not creating those blocks. They’re just arranging them in a certain way to accomplish something.

Robert Campbell:

In kind of a weird metaphor there, it’s kind of what we do. We’re putting together different things in different ways. You’re not creating something out of nothing. It’s not that big of a responsibility. And a lot of this, I think, maybe kind of goes back to… Rightly or wrongly, when I got my first job in advertising, I kind of had a lot of those pressures wrapped up in my perception of what the job entailed. And I went through quite a bit of pavement pounding to get my first real job out of college. And I finally got a call back to come in and take, I think the absolute lowest job on the totem pole. And I came in, I got the job. I was so happy with myself. And then I found out that the reason they called me was because the guy they had hired originally had been arrested for grand larceny and technically couldn’t show up for work. So I was the backup to that guy. So because of that-

Nicky Mondellini:

Okay, whatever it takes, man.

Robert Campbell:

Yeah. Well, it’s kind of, for better or worse, it sort of flavored my inability to take advertising too seriously. It’s the way I look at creativity, is that really, it’s a puzzle. You’re solving a problem. And that’s why I love limitations. I love kind of those little borders you draw around your task, your endeavor, your goal with, “This is what you have to work with.” There’s a really cool scene in Apollo 13, where Ed Harris comes in and the astronauts, their oxygen tank has blown up and they’re kind of on this uncontrolled orbit to the moon.

Robert Campbell:

And he walks into this room full of engineers. And he dumps a box full of all these different pieces of equipment, representing what the astronauts have to work with and say, “Okay, this is what you got. Let’s use this to get these guys back from the moon.” And in a sense, it’s kind of you have all these limitations, all these sort of boundaries that you have to work with, and it’s a puzzle and it’s fun. It’s fun to solve these creative puzzles. So that really, it’s enabled me to sort of tackle creative projects in a way that if I was frozen by that blank sheet of paper, I don’t know that I’ve ever done that. And it’s made something that could be sort of intimidating into something that’s kind of challenging in a fun way. So I still enjoy it.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, of course. In other words, really, to get past that writer’s block or putting too much pressure on yourself is thinking, “You know what? No, you don’t have to invent something that hasn’t been invented.” You just have to use all of your resources of what you are, put yourself into it and then see it’s perfectly okay to grab situations that have been done before, but now it’s going to be with your take, with your point of view. So that’s a nice way of putting it.

Robert Campbell:

And there’s so much good work out there. You never know how something’s going to influence you or even what’s going to influence you. And sometimes, it’s just kind of floating around in your head and through your system. And it flavors who you are. So I think there’s a lot of pressure that creative people put on themselves that may not be necessary.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely. And let’s talk now about this business is just so full of peaks and valleys of your successful and then you’re not, and then you throw into the mix a lot of obstacles. So how do you personally navigate hard times? For example being in lockdown during the pandemic and everything that that brought with it in the business? A lot of studios had to shut down. Nobody was able to work, everything had to be put on hold. So how was that for you?

Robert Campbell:

Well as a writer, I’ve been very fortunate specifically with the pandemic. That aspect of my work, I can do for my little, my little man grotto here. I can do 90% of that here. Production meetings get to be a little challenging, or have been over the past year. And I think that’s something that everybody’s getting used to. With 808, we’ve been on quite a few productions. And honestly, peaks and valleys describe even kind of this COVID period. It’s just when you think things are loosening up, they ratchet down again. But again, I’ve been very fortunate in that I can do a lot of what I do from anywhere. Very appreciative of that. But I think the other key is just being adaptable. You’re podcasting, for example. You’re exploring new areas. I think it’s an opportunity to do new things and create new experiences that you can absorb and send out later.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. And then you’re discovering other things that you would’ve never looked at had there not been the situation where you have to be in lockdown. And so yeah, for sure, just like you’re mentioning the podcasting and everything else, but also it’s giving yourself a chance to think about other things in a different way, that now you have time for, or that you have been forced to look at in a different way and solving things in a completely different way. So what is one last piece of advice that you want to give to people that are producers or writers, it could be either for advertising, or film, or whatever else, that you would’ve liked to have heard yourself at the beginning of your career.

Robert Campbell:

Don’t take no for an answer. I was going to say, I’ve done the thing where you go back and you look at the stuff that’s in your first portfolio, or on your first reel, and you kind of cringe a little bit. You were so pleased and proud of yourself… And I’m speaking strictly for myself, so pleased and proud of yourself at the time. And then you look at it later and it’s like, “Oh. Ouch. Somebody should have told me to go back to driving a truck or ripping beehives out of buildings. But what I mean by don’t take no for an answer, I mean stick with it. If it’s something you enjoy, even if there… And there will be people who tell you that you’re no good at it.

Robert Campbell:

If you enjoy it, you’ll become good at it. It becomes a craft that you hone. You improve, and gradually it becomes… You immerse yourself in that world. And again, it’s like you’re a thinking being. So you can form your opinions of what’s good and what’s not, and then you grow as you do that. So stick with it. Stick with it. If you truly enjoy it, you’ll become as good as you think you are, or as good as you want to be, or as good as you want to think you will be.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely.

Robert Campbell:

I’m not sure what tense I’m on there, but you get the idea.

Nicky Mondellini:

All of the above are very true. Yeah, definitely. And I think that is spot on advice because we tend to beat ourselves up so much and are so tentative about doing something. When we hear that first big no, and like, “Oh no, it’s not going to work,” out or whatever. And if we believe that person too much, and then we stop believing in ourselves and what we can do, then that’s it. They ruin your creativity. But we do hear a lot of nos before we hear a yes in this business. Right?

Robert Campbell:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think in any business, anybody-

Nicky Mondellini:

In any business, yeah.

Robert Campbell:

… the worst thing you can do, if it’s something that you enjoy doing, letting somebody else reign on your parade, go for it.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely. Robert, oh my goodness, it’s been such a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for joining me. I know you have-

Robert Campbell:

Thank you.

Nicky Mondellini:

… plenty of things that you’re doing and the talks that you’re giving and everything. And so, yeah this has been really very helpful, and some very useful tips for young producers and writers. And I wish you continued success with 808 and anything that is coming along.

Robert Campbell:

Thank you so much, Nicky. It’s been a pleasure.

Alan Villatoro:

Thanks for joining us on La Pizarra. Want to listen to more episodes? Visit lapizarrapodcast.com or nickymondellini.com/lapizarra, where you can sign up for our newsletter and get exclusive previews of future episodes, as well as resources for your creative business. Tune in next week for another interesting interview.

 

Episode Summary

Daniela Aedo @danielaaedo es actriz, tanto de telenovelas como de doblaje, es cantautora y ha incursionado como narradora de audiolibros. Comenzó su carrera artística a los cuatro años de edad con la telenovela Carita de Angel, luego en Vivan los Niños, donde hacía el papel de mi hija, y le siguieron muchos más éxitos hasta el día de hoy. En esta entrevista nos cuenta todo sobre ser una estrella infantil, la forma en que las familias deben acompañar estos procesos y lo importante que es seguir formándose de manera integral, sin importar los años de experiencia en la profesión.

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] Narrador: Esto es La Pizarra. Un espacio para explorar las mentes creativas del mundo del espectáculo en ambos lados de la cámara y el micrófono. Aquí está su anfitriona, Nicky Mondellini.
[00:00:16] Nicky Mondellini: Hola, ¿cómo están? Bienvenidos a un episodio más de La Pizarra. Soy Nicky Mondellini. Hoy vamos a hablar sobre lo que significa ser una estrella infantil y cómo perdurar en la carrera artística. Para ello, mi invitada es la bellísima y talentosa Daniela Aedo.
Ustedes ya la conocen, fue mi hija en la telenovela de Vivan los Niños. La escucharon en la reunión que hicimos la temporada pasada con varios del elenco de esa telenovela, pero me quedé con muchísimas ganas de platicar largo y tendido con ella, saber qué ha sido de su vida, cómo fue esa evolución para ella en lo que es ahora una maravillosa actriz y cantautora. Así es que acompáñenme, vamos a conocer un poco más sobre Daniela Aedo.
[música de fondo]
Si tienes un podcast o estás pensando en comenzar uno te recomiendo una plataforma que me ha funcionado de maravilla para grabar entrevistas, se llama SquadCast, sobre todo porque tiene calidad de sonido Dolby. Con eso tienes muchas ventajas al procesar audio, como el nivelar dinámicamente la calidad y claridad de sonido, una experiencia inmersiva de sonido que se mueve alrededor tuyo.
Tiene claridad de sonido con la cancelación del eco y ruido ambiental y un ancho de banda optimizado para mantenerte conectado con tus invitados aun en lugares donde haya fallas de conexión. Puedes grabar tanto en audio como en video y se pueden incluir hasta nueve invitados en la misma sesión. También tienes la capacidad de grabar hasta 10 horas de audio mensuales o más dependiendo del plan que elijas.
Otra ventaja es que si se te olvida presionar el botón de grabar tus audios se generan automáticamente en backup ahí mismo en la plataforma. Además, el soporte técnico está para ayudarte con cualquier duda o problema que surja y me consta que te responden el mismo día. Puedes usar el link squadcast.fm/?ref=lapizarra. Este enlace lo encuentras en las notas del programa.
Pruébalo gratis por siete días y luego ya decides el nivel de membrecía que más se acomode a tus necesidades. Es bastante accesible y la puedes pagar mensualmente o anualmente con un descuento. Otra enorme ventaja es que puedes descargar el audio mezclado o los archivos separados para editarlos y mezclarlos por tu cuenta. Entérate de todo lo que puedes hacer con SquadCast y empieza a probar los siete días gratis en squadcast.fm/?ref=lapizarra.
Daniela Aedo comenzó su carrera a los cuatro años de edad con la telenovela Carita de Ángel. Ya después de eso le siguió otra actuación muy importante en la telenovela Vivan los Niños, donde, como ya saben y les dije al principio, fue mi hija Marisol. Fue una experiencia muy, muy bella que ahorita platicaremos un poquito acerca de eso.
Más adelante, Dani siguió haciendo otras actuaciones especiales como en la telenovela Contra viento y marea, Mi pecado, también hizo participaciones en Mujer, casos de la vida real. Ahora más recientemente ustedes la habrán visto en Como dice el dicho y también en Esto me suena.
Dani también estudió música y ahora es cantautora, tiene muchos éxitos originales. Ella ya se ha presentado en la Ciudad de México y en Argentina. Fue todo con éxitos desde su primer disco. Pueden escuchar sus canciones originales en Spotify y en YouTube. Ahí pueden ver sus videos musicales.
También pueden ver varios videos muy bonitos en donde Dani tiene reuniones con varios del elenco de los que eran los niños, de la telenovela Vivan los Niños. Muy bellos, se los recomiendo, así es que vamos a poner una liga para eso en las notas del programa. Dani, ¿cómo estás? Bienvenida a La Pizarra.
[00:04:10] Daniela Aedo: Muy bien. Muchas gracias. Feliz de por fin poder concretar esta plática que teníamos rato pendiente y muy contenta de escuchar esa presentación tan bonita.
[00:04:19] Nicky: Qué linda. Realmente es que sí, Dani, ya nos merecíamos tener una reunión así para ponernos al corriente, para ahora sí que saber un poquito de la vida de cada una, pero ahorita más de la tuya, porque la gente no quiere escuchar toda mi trayectoria ahorita. Vamos a conocer más acerca de ti y de lo que has hecho.
Vamos a comenzar con algunas preguntas. También quiero ver cómo ha sido para ti la vida como estrella infantil, el desarrollo de tu carrera, porque son varias cosas que van en juego. Así es que, ¿cómo fue para ti esa primera experiencia con Carita de Ángel?
[00:04:59] Daniela: Fue una etapa que la verdad yo recuerdo haber disfrutado mucho, la recuerdo con mucho cariño. Estaba rodeada de adultos que se interesaban en mí en el sentido de que me contaban cosas interesantes. Yo les hacía preguntas y me tomaban en serio. Me daba cuenta que me trataban diferente a como a veces te tratan los adultos. Cuando eres niño uno se da cuenta cuando un adulto te trata en serio y cuándo no, era muy diferente a como me trataban los maestro de la escuela, niñeras, no sé.
[00:05:33] Nicky: Te sentías protegida, te sentías apoyada, no nada más por el elenco, sino toda la gente que te rodeaba, tus padres, las personas de la producción, etcétera. Te sentías segura y apoyada.
[00:05:49] Daniela: Sí, pero además me sentía tomada en cuenta, mi voz y mi voto contaba. De pronto cosas que yo decía o inventaba se quedaban en la historia o se quedaban como frases. Incluso, muchas equivocaciones que tenía de niña, decían, “Es que es tierno y que se quede”.
[00:06:06] Nicky: Qué bonito.
[00:06:07] Daniela: También recuerdo con mucho cariño que detrás de escena había una sensación familiar, realmente nos llevábamos muy bien. Miguel de León era mi papá postizo, Marisol Santa Cruz era una linda conmigo, también Nora Salinas divinísima. Todo el elenco era increíble.
También, por supuesto, tengo recuerdos muy bonitos con las niñas, porque las niñas todo el tiempo estábamos jugando en los camerinos. Jugando y luego era grabar, era como continuar el juego, continuar con la fantasía.
[00:06:43] Nicky: Yo creo que es muy importante que hayas empezado con dos proyectos, tanto Carita de Ángel como Viva los Niños, donde tú no eras la única niña, no eras la única estrella infantil, estabas rodeada de otros niños. Tenías la oportunidad de convivir con tus iguales, de tener esas impresiones y esas travesuras, esos momentitos, en el corte a comer estás no nada más con adultos, también estás con niños.
Yo siento que eso es bonito y muy importante, a diferencia de otros niños que a lo mejor comienzan en una telenovela y son el único niño o nada más son dos niños y están rodeados de puros adultos. Claro, son mimados, son protegidos, etcétera, pero para ellos el relacionarse solamente con otros adultos crea otras cosas.
Muchos maduran mucho más rápido, pero sí es muy bonito que tengas la oportunidad de ser una niña en todo el sentido de la palabra, no nada más una niña que trabaja y vaya que trabajabas muy arduamente, eran unos ritmos de trabajo muy pesados, pero tenías esos momentos donde estabas jugando con los otros niños. Yo siento que eso para ti o no sé ahora cómo tú me dirás, pero te creó unas memorias que te duran para toda la vida, ¿no?
[00:08:01] Daniela: Claro, al grado de que todavía los chicos de Vivan los Niños y las chicas de Vivan los Niños nos hablamos, nos mensajeamos. Obvio, por la pandemia ahorita no se ha podido, pero hemos tenido nuestras reuniones de Navidad.
[00:08:12] Nicky: Padrísimo.
[00:08:13] Daniela: Además de eso, yo sí tenía una vida afuera. Iba a la escuela, tenía mis amigos fuera. Mis papás siempre se encargaron de que yo tuviera mi mundo fuera de eso.
[00:08:24] Nicky: Eso es muy importante la verdad, porque si uno tiene la vida de fuera tan normal como se pueda no pierdes piso. Se oye mucho de niños, sobre todo también en Estados Unidos, de varios que fueron estrellas infantiles muy famosos, pero que de repente algo sucedió en su psicología, en la relación con sus padres, etcétera, donde perdieron piso y acabaron las cosas muy mal. No voy a decir nombres, pero se sabe de varios que han acabado mal.
Yo siento que para ti eso es bonito, igual que para todo el elenco. Puedo decirlo de primera mano, conociendo a tu mami que es una linda persona, es divina y siempre se esforzó por eso, por hacerte ver cómo es la vida y hasta ahorita se platica contigo y no eres una persona pretenciosa, tienes los pies muy plantados en la tierra, la cabeza bien sentada en tus hombros, sabes lo que es el trabajo y sabes a lo que quieres llegar.
Tú, por ejemplo, ¿qué le podrías aconsejar a los padres que quieren que sus hijos sean estrellas infantiles y que los niños a lo mejor también le han pedido eso a sus padres?
[00:09:39] Daniela: Antes que cualquier otra cosa, que los papás no sean quienes los empujen, que siempre venga del niño, siempre. Incluso en las mejores condiciones esta onda de la fama es muy dura. Sí, yo tuve una infancia y una adolescencia muy padre, pero obviamente ya siendo grande reflexiona sobre las implicaciones y no importa qué tan bien te haya ido, lo pones en duda, lo pones en cuestionamiento, incluso yo siendo esta niña que tú me veías muy feliz de estar ahí.
Creo que sí, definitivamente es algo que los papás igual y no deberían empujar, sino esperar a que el niño lo busque. Incluso cuando el niño lo busque, ser muy consciente de la psicología, de ver cómo le está afectando, de ver cómo está haciendo. Igual espérense tantito, a una edad más grande, 13, 14, en la adolescencia, cuando ya se toman decisiones más maduras, creo que eso es importante.
Obviamente siempre va a haber niños actores porque tienen que haber actores que representen los papeles de niños, crearle quizá este espacio como afuera, que tenga sus amigos. Algo que creo que fue muy importante, por ejemplo, en Carita de Ángel, que yo siempre tuve muy claro que todo mundo me dice, “Es que la protagonista”, pero yo como que nunca me vi como la protagonista, siempre dije, “La protagonista es la historia. Si no estuviera yo estaría otra niña”.
Lo padre es la producción, la familia que se forma y el equipo, porque al final uno solamente cumple un papel, pero está el productor, está el escritor, está el director, están los otros actores y ser conscientes que en toda producción creativa es un equipo.
[00:11:41] Nicky: Así es, totalmente. De todos los niños con los que se siguen llevando no todos han seguido en la carrera artística, algunos de ellos ya cambiaron de rumbo totalmente, pero de los que tú has visto en estas reuniones que has hecho, ¿hay alguno de ellos que hable negativamente? No tienes que mencionar nombres, pero ¿hay alguno de ellos que no haya tenido el mismo tipo de experiencia que tú platicas, por ejemplo, que no haya sido tan favorable?
[00:12:15] Daniela: Fíjate que no, los que hemos platicado no, porque los que decidieron no dedicarse a eso ya tienen sus carreras. Está, por ejemplo, Val Cuenca estudió para trabajar en museos. Val López es dentista. Cano, que fue Damián, no sé qué estudió, pero está trabajando. Christian es contador. De los que sí se siguieron dedicando, como Natalia, está ahí supermetida en redes sociales y sale en la tele. Andrés está en producciones y trabaja.
Creo que fue una experiencia positiva porque también la producción se encargó de encontrar niños que querían estar ahí, de niños que nos estábamos divirtiendo. Obvio lo recuerdo más en Vivan los Niños porque era mucho más la convivencia con los compañeros. Era como estar en la escuela de verdad.
De hecho en las pausas en los camerinos nos sentaban a estudiar. Cada quien muchas veces tenía su propia maestra o grupos de tres con una maestra. Era entre jugar, porque grabar era divertido y era de pronto aventarnos cosas y aventarnos agua, esa diversión fue capturada, y pausas para estudiar, obviamente con un ritmo. Luego faltaban horas de sueño algunas veces, pero fuera de eso creo que fue una experiencia muy positiva para todos.
[00:13:50] Nicky: Qué maravilla. La verdad es muy bonito verlo y ver cómo se quieren todos, cómo se siguen apoyando todavía. Definitivamente esa fue una experiencia que sentó unas bases muy lindas y de amistades duraderas para todos ustedes, que es muy lindo ver. Vamos a llenar un poquito aquí la información que a mí me faltó, de cuándo es que comenzaste a estudiar música y cómo fue que empezaste esa faceta en tu vida, de la música y de ser cantautora.
[00:14:22] Daniela: Por ahí de segundo de secundaria mi papá tocó la guitarra de chico, mi abuela tocó la guitarra de chica, me interesó la guitarra y empecé a tomar mis cursos de guitarra. Tuve un maestro muy padre que me enseñó muchas cosas, Juan Carlos Ríos, que lo quiero mucho.
Poco a poco me empezó a interesar más. Estudiar armonía, empecé a componer y muy poquito a poquito empecé a cantar porque a mí me daba mucho miedo cantar. Me daba mucho, mucho miedo cantar, nunca fui de las niñas de Televisa que cantaban. Traía esa onda de que, “No, yo no canto”. Me refugié mucho tiempo en la guitarra.
Poquito a poquito empecé a escribir poemas. Todavía no juntaba música con letra, hacía poemas. Para allá, dos años antes de salir de la universidad yo tocaba muchísimo la guitarra, tenía mis composiciones. De pronto se vino la idea de la posibilidad de estudiar música en la universidad y dije, “Bueno, ¿qué tal que sí me aceptan?”.
Decidí hacer todos mis trámites y me aceptaron en una escuela de música que se me hizo muy cool aplicar, que fue Berklee College of Music. Fue un año superestresante, porque aparte que era el último año de prepa, exámenes y nunca fui buena con las matemáticas, ese año había de que Física, Química y mate al mismo tiempo, pero saqué adelante todas mis calificaciones y al mismo tiempo apliqué y me aceptaron. Apliqué como guitarrista no como cantante. Me aceptaron y me fui para allá.
Allá empecé a tomar mi camino musical. La guitarra se volvió una herramienta de composición. Aprendí más acordes, más ritmos, me empapé mucho de la comunidad latina de allá, de lo chistoso, que conviví mucho con gente de Colombia, Puerto Rico, Argentina, República Dominicana, Ecuador. Me fui empapando de todo eso y poco a poco empecé a hacer canciones con música y letra.
Yo como que no sabía todavía que quería cantar, pero para enseñar las canciones teníamos un club de songwriters, de cantautores con música en español, para presentarlas tenía que cantarlas. Ahí fui desarrollando mi voz, desarrollando mi seguridad al punto donde empecé a–
En veranos se pueden tener trabajos en la universidad. Parte de esos trabajos es tener tu propio show en distintos puntos de Boston para amenizar, promocionar la escuela y también porque nos dan el chance a nosotros de poner nuestras habilidades frente a gente que no sea de la escuela. Ahí obtuve mis primeros shows y empecé a tocar frente a la gente con muchísimo nervio, tocar y cantar. Sí, se pudo poco a poco.
Ya cuando regresé a México muy decidida con mi proyecto cantautor, ya con varias canciones escritas empecé a buscar un estudio de grabación. El primero donde trabajé se llama 3KMKZ, donde grabé esas canciones de mi primer disco. Empecé a tener shows. En 2017 fue mi primer show aquí en la Ciudad de México en Bataclan. Estuvo muy padre, vinieron muchos amigos, muchas amigas.
Así me fui enfilando, shows, shows, shows para tener seguridad en el escenario, tener más control, entender cómo se movían las cosas. Empecé a sacar mis canciones. No sé si ya me adelanté.
[00:18:18] Nicky: No, perfecto. No, porque precisamente eso era lo que yo quería que me contaras. Cómo fue esa evolución y me la diste muy bien de principio a fin. Me parece a mí maravilloso cómo realmente has seguido creciendo en una carrera creativa, moviéndote hacia otro ámbito que después se conjunta también con la actuación, pero irte al ritmo de la música, empezar a desarrollar, ver y conocer qué hay ahí, forzarte a abrir esas puertas y esas cosas que de repente algunas cosas parecían obstáculos para ti.
Entre las materias, en seguir en la universidad, en todo eso, realmente lo aplaudo, me parece genial, me parece maravilloso porque hay que salir de su zona de confort. Uno tiene que seguir creciendo, evolucionar y descubrir todo lo que puedes hacer. Me parece que ahorita nada más estás como que apenas rasgando todo lo maravilloso que puedes hacer porque ya asentaste tus bases, de ahí vas a seguir creciendo y haciendo más composiciones.
Hablando de composiciones, ahorita me gustaría poner la de Cicatrízate, ese es de tu primer–
[00:19:35] Daniela: Cicatrizte.
[00:19:37] Nicky: Cicatrizte.Hasta lo estoy pronunciando mal. Cicatrizte. Hasta ahí es la creatividad en el juego de la palabra. ¿Ese es de tu primer disco?
[00:19:47] Daniela: Sí.
[00:19:48] Nicky: Perfecto. Vamos a hacer una pequeñita pausa para escuchar Cicatrizte.
[música de fondo] El tiempo pasó y tu quedaste atrás
¿Dónde quedaron las ganas de dar?
Te pido perdón, lo pude hacer mejor
Sé que no soy perfecta, entiende, por favor.
Hoy vendí el cactus que me regalaste
Y sembré las ganas de cambiar de aire
Ni tu cara toda hermosa puedo recordar.
No eres más que otra canción, un recuerdo en mi habitación
Desilusión
No eres más que otra canción, cicatrizte de corazón
Desilusión
Ya no te amo tanto como ayer
Ya no te amo tanto como ayer.
[00:21:14] Nicky: Ahora sí ya escuchamos esa bellísima canción, Cicatrizte, qué bonita voz tienes además, Dani, has desarrollado muy bien tu voz. Me parece-
[00:21:22] Daniela: Muchas gracias.
[00:21:23] Nicky: – increíble la verdad. Muy melodiosa. También me puse a ver ese video que sacaste de las trenzas que es el cover que hiciste. Guao, qué bonito. Además, ya tu interpretación, ahí vemos a una cantante así establecida, cómoda con quien eres. Estás llegando a un punto donde te estás ahora sí que expresando en todo el sentido de la palabra y creciendo tanto en covers como en tus propias creaciones.
Cuéntame ahora de esos videos musicales. En uno de ellos tienes a Oscar, fue el melenudo en Vivan los Niños, ¿verdad?
[00:22:01] Daniela: Sí, era Diego.
[00:22:03] Nicky: Era Diego, es verdad. Qué bonito que estuvo ahí en ese video. ¿Cómo se dio ese video, quién te lo dirigió, cómo surgió la idea?
[00:22:14] Daniela: Me creerás que fue idea de mi mamá porque ya teníamos el concepto del video, que es una pareja que corta y que está ahí en el depa, así como nada estando sin estar. Yo estaba pensando en un actor, “¿Quién conmigo? ¿Quién conmigo?”, y me dijo mi mamá, “¿Por qué no le preguntas a uno de tus compañeros de Vivan los Niños?”, y yo, “Sí, a Oscar”. Obviamente, le dije y se animó.
La verdad es que se rifó porque fue un llamado larguísimo. Le hablamos como a las 9:00 AM. Llegó a las 9:00 AM y se habrá ido a las 2:00 AM. Esos videos musicales son súper, superrudos, son grabaciones muy largas, muy complicadas, pero muy padres. Se animó y la gente reaccionó muy bien al respecto.
[00:23:06] Nicky: ¿Cómo no? Imagínate, verlos reunidos después de que se conocieron de chiquitines. Me parece una cosa bellísima. En tus canciones hablas en algunas de desamor, otras de cosas alegres, ¿en dónde se te hace más fácil o dónde para ti empieza a nacer esa inspiración para tus canciones?
[00:23:31] Daniela: Tengo mis épocas. Hubo un tiempo donde solo escribía cosas de desamor. Hubo un tiempo donde escribía cosas superalegres de amor, pero también tengo esta onda de no necesariamente escribir de amor. Tengo una canción que se llama Frágil. De hecho, nació la idea después del terremoto de aquí de 2017. La canción prácticamente casi no tiene letra y dice mucho frágil, todo es frágil, pensando en realmente en cómo de un minuto a otro la vida nos puede cambiar.
Las canciones que he estado escribiendo últimamente son un poco más de desamor, pero ya las escucharán después. Se me ocurre una idea y ya de ahí me voy. Generalmente se me ocurre el título, de ahí hago el coro y voy ya haciendo todo lo demás. Sí, son las cosas que me pasan a mí o escuchando las historias de otras personas es como, “Eso podría ser una canción”, y cosas así.
[00:24:36] Nicky: Claro, la inspiración te llega por todos lados y muchas veces cuando no la estás esperando. Así es.
[00:24:41] Daniela: Totalmente. Siempre saco mi celular, escribo la idea y sigo con mi vida.
[00:24:46] Nicky: ¿Has hecho colaboraciones o estás pensando en alguna colaboración con algún artista?
[00:24:52] Daniela: Estoy a punto de grabar una colaboración con un artista, no quiero decir nada porque ya ves esos planes que cuentas no salen, pero compusimos una canción muy padre que estoy muy emocionada de grabar pronto, pero los dos hemos estado así superocupados, pero ya pronto.
[00:25:07] Nicky: Hay que estar pendientes de tus redes sociales y de ese canal de YouTube para que la gente pueda ver esa colaboración a ver en qué queda.
[00:25:17] Daniela: Totalmente.
[00:25:18] Nicky: Ahora sí cuáles son esas redes sociales para que la gente te siga.
[00:25:23] Daniela: Como Daniela Aedo me pueden encontrar en todos lados. Estoy verificada en todos lados, así que búsquenme en Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, estoy como Daniela Aedo.
[00:25:35] Nicky: Perfecto. Ahí vi una de tus canciones que fue la de Quiero mi Tamal en Instagram. [ríe] Búsquenla en Instagram, esa está muy chistosa.
[00:25:48] Daniela: Eso me gusta hacer, cambiarle la letra a las canciones.
[00:25:51] Nicky: Claro, por supuesto, es muy divertido hacerlo, además te quedó muy bien. Sí, con la tonalidad de esta canción de Frozen 2. Sí, muy chistoso, muy bonito, me encantó. Dani, hablando un poquito otra vez de la actuación, ¿cómo te ves ahorita, hacia dónde quieres que siga tu carrera artística también? Además de tus canciones y tus videos, pero dentro de la actuación, ¿estás buscando más cine, seguirte por las telenovelas, quieres hacer teatro? ¿Cuáles son tus inquietudes?
[00:26:26] Daniela: Yo quiero crear. Yo quiero contar historias. Eso es lo que está en mi corazón. Siempre voy a ir con mi música, pero sí estoy buscando proyectos diferentes de actuación. Justo por eso ahorita estoy en un curso intensivo de actuación en el Conservatorio de Actuación para poder tener bases de teatro, que yo nunca tuve bases de teatro más que la obra de Carita de Ángel, pero estaba muy chica, y ya del teatro parte todo lo demás.
He participado en novelas recientemente, participaciones más pequeñas. He querido estar en series y en cine, pero definitivamente creo que para eso hay que formarse, hay que estudiar. Ni modo, a completar lo que a uno le falta para ponerse al corriente, la vida es larga y no hay edad, hay papeles para todas las edades.
Así que ahorita estoy estudiando Actuación para sí llegar con mucho más poder, mucho más seguridad, mucho más que ofrecer como actor a un casting de Netflix, de películas o de teatro. La verdad es que me encantaría hacer teatro.
[00:27:36] Nicky: Yo realmente sí te veo triunfando y logrando todo eso porque no es fácil uno decidir, cuando alguien ya he tenido la fama y que la alcanzaste tan pequeñita la fama y todo, como decía Nicandro Díaz, el productor de Vivan los Niños, que a él le encanta trabajar con niños porque no tienen prejuicios y son muy naturales.
Es muy bonito ver eso, pero sí llega un punto donde el niño actor, que ya se empieza a desarrollar, que ya te empiezas a cuestionar cosas y todo, necesitas una base, necesitas una guía y necesitas entrenamiento muy específico.
Así es que me da muchísimo gusto que estés ahorita en el Conservatorio aprendiendo eso, siguiendo en ese camino porque definitivamente ya con la base que tú tienes, de la experiencia, ya el haber estado enfrente a cámaras tanto tiempo, sabes a lo que vas y sabes que este negocio tarde también es maratón, que uno tiene que paciencia y que para perdurar hay que entrenarse y hay que seguir adelante. Así es que sí, yo te veo triunfando en todo eso definitivamente, así que igual, aplaudo mucho ese esfuerzo, Dani.
[00:28:52] Daniela: Muchas gracias.
[00:28:53] Nicky: Muchísimas gracias a ti. La verdad es que ha sido genial hablar contigo, ponernos al corriente. Quién sabe, la vida a lo mejor nos vuelve a juntar como madre e hija en algún otro proyecto.
[00:29:04] Daniela: Ojalá.
[00:29:05] Nicky: Sería bellísimo. Lancémoslo al universo para que algo así se dé.
[00:29:10] Daniela: No sé si sepas, pero hablando de actuación, lo que he estado haciendo mucho estos últimos años es doblaje. He hecho doblaje con Disney.
[00:29:16] Nicky: No sabía. A ver, cuéntanos.
[00:29:20] Daniela: Sí. Estuve en El Cascanueces y los cuatro reinos, en los Increíbles 2. En muchas series. Obviamente en el doblaje siempre se empieza desde abajo.
[00:29:32] Nicky: Sí, no es nada fácil el doblaje.
[00:29:33] Daniela: No. Empecé con voces de fondo, voces en off, pero ya también con Disney, con series de Marvel, con agentes de SHIELD. También lo que he estado haciendo muchísimo son audiolibros. He hecho como 12 o 13.
[00:29:50] Nicky: Dani, por favor, ojalá y hubiera sabio eso, lo hubiera puesto aquí en tu currículum al principio. Cantautora, actriz-
[00:29:56] Daniela: No, está padre y así lo apuntamos en la entrevista.
[00:29:58] Nicky: – y locutora. Más redondo que eso yo no sé qué hay. Estás cubriendo todas las áreas artísticas. Qué bueno, porque realmente todo eso contribuye a tu desarrollo de contar historias. Es una belleza contar audiolibros, el hacer voces para Disney y todo eso. Qué maravilla, Dani, genial. ¿Cuál fue tu doblaje más reciente?
[00:30:27] Daniela: No me acuerdo, creo que para la seria de Sailor Moon. No, para La Casa de Mickey Mouse.
[00:30:36] Nicky: Dani, vamos a poner todo eso en una lista de esas participaciones que has hecho para que la gente pueda ver y darse cuenta que tú eres la voz.
[00:30:50] Daniela: Tengo mi página de Wiki Doblaje.
[00:30:53] Nicky: Ahí muy bien vamos a poder ver toda esa trayectoria también dentro del doblaje. Nuevamente, felicidades. Me da muchísimo gusto, ahora que lo sé con más ganas voy a buscarlo para escucharte ahí. Dentro de esa experiencia del doblaje que dices, “Claro, uno tiene que empezar con voces pequeñas, participaciones pequeñas”. ¿Qué es lo que a ti se te ha hecho más difícil del doblaje?
[00:31:23] Daniela: Algo que me costó mucho trabajo fue que yo me iba un poco imitando al inglés, como que imitando la tonadita, pero me explicaba el maestro Tejedo que no, “Nosotros no imitamos, hacemos nuestra propia”. Aprender el tono específico del doblaje, porque es una escuela muy específica la del doblaje en español, el lugar de irme por lo que yo sentía y ya realmente entender el tono.
[00:31:54] Nicky: Sí, entender el tono y el saber que tienes que estar ahora sí que igualando un poco el movimiento de los labios, etcétera, y tantas cosas que tienes que hacer al mismo tiempo y el entrar justo cuando suena el tono ahí que ya te toca hablar, desarrollarlo y hacerlo propiamente del personaje que estás creando. Esa creación de los personajes en el doblaje es bellísimo.
Hemos tenido aquí en La Pizarra invitados que son especialistas en doblaje y es una carrera difícil, pero bellísima. El gusto de hacer personajes en esas series es algo que te llena mucho también. ¿Es algo que quieres seguir haciendo, quieres continuar con el doblaje?
[00:32:46] Daniela: Sí, me encanta.
[00:32:48] Nicky: Dani, ahora sí, muchísimas gracias por darnos esta ventana en tu vida, en tu desarrollo como artista en todos los campos que estás abarcando. ¿Qué más sigue para ti, Dani? Además de tus creaciones y actuación, ¿tienes alguna otra cosa aquí, como llegar a otro punto más allá o ya con todo lo que ya tienes cocinando por ahorita es suficiente?
[00:33:18] Daniela: Por ahorita ya las manos llenas tengo. Ya de por sí coordinar una carrera musical, luego ahorita que entré a una escuela y luego que si el llamado, los horarios. Ahorita en pandemia no se ven a los amigos, pero también luego sí hace falta el contacto con las personas. Más bien ahorita estoy aprendiendo a malabarear lo que ya tengo en la mesa.
[00:33:38] Nicky: Que sí es bastante. Sí, definitivamente. Dani, seguiremos pendientes de ti para ver cómo es el desarrollo de Daniela Aedo, todas las cosas increíbles que estoy muy segura que vas a lograr, seguir en firme en esa carrera, que tienes mucho por hacer todavía, además de todo lo maravilloso que ya has hecho. Así es que te lo agradezco, Dani. Estaremos pendientes de tus redes sociales.
[00:34:04] Daniela: Muchísimas gracias. Cuídate muchísimo. Bendiciones para ti y que sigan todos los éxitos.
[00:34:10] Nicky: Gracias. Muchas gracias, Dani.
[música de fondo]
[00:34:11] Narrador: Gracias por acompañarnos en La Pizarra. ¿Quieres escuchar más episodios? Visita www.lapizarrapodcast.com o nickymondellini.com/lapizarra donde podrás suscribirte al boletín mensual y tener acceso a los avances exclusivos de los nuevos episodios, así como recursos para tu negocio creativo. Sintonízate la próxima semana para otra interesante entrevista.

Episode Summary

Simon Painter @theillusionistslive is the creative mind behind the biggest magic shows in the world, The Illusionists, Circus 1903, Le Noir, and Adrenaline. In this interview we explore ways in which we can find the balance between being good creatively and making sure that we are making money with our projects. We also talk about the importance of, on the one hand, following our dreams and on the other hand, to always keep on doing and trying many different things because what really matters in the entertainment industry is our experience.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Mario Filio:

This is La Pizarra, a place where we explore creative minds in the entertainment industry on both sides of the mic and the camera. Here is your host, Nicky Mondellini.

Nicky Mondellini:

Welcome to another episode of La Pizarra. My name is Nicky Mondellini. I’m your host, and today we’re going to talk about magic in a big way. For that, we’re going to explore the creative mind of the man behind the biggest magic shows in the world, and that is Simon Painter. He is the executive producer and creative director of The Illusionists, Cirque, or Circus, 1903, Le Noir, Adrenaline, and The Illusionists too. You can check out their website, theworksent.com. I’m going to link to that in the show notes. And you can also follow them on Instagram @theillusionistslive. You can see all of their videos on YouTube and of course also on their website. Well, The Illusionists is now the biggest magic show in history, smashing box office records in Sydney, London, and Broadway. So stick around and let’s find out how it all happens with Simon Painter.

Nicky Mondellini:

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Nicky Mondellini:

Simon Painter is executive producer and creative director of The Works Entertainment, which is one of the most successful live entertainment companies in the world, and has created and produced first class entertainment in over 400 cities and 40 countries. Their award winning shows have smashed records multiple times around the world. Their first collaboration was Le Grand Cirque at the Sydney Opera House. Later Simon created The Illusionists: Witness the Impossible with his partner, Tim Lawson, which sold out its season at the Sydney Opera House even before opening night, something that has happened in arenas and theaters around the world, along with its sequels, The Illusionists 2.0 and Illusionists: Turn of the Century. The touring shows include Cirque Paris, Le Noir: the Dark Side of Cirque, and The Unbelievables, and their latest productions include Circus 1903: the Golden Age of Circus, and Now You See Me.

Nicky Mondellini:

Simon, welcome to La Pizarra. I’m so happy you could join me today.

Simon Painter:

Thanks so much for having me.

Nicky Mondellini:

Well, it’s amazing to read about all of the productions that you guys have going on because, my goodness, in over 400 cities, this is just crazy. I mean, how does that get to happen? Okay. Let’s just backtrack a little bit. How does a classical violinist end up being the producer of the biggest magic shows in the world?

Simon Painter:

Well, it certainly didn’t happen by accident, but it wasn’t the path that I would’ve ever chosen, that’s for sure. So, I mean, it’s quite a convoluted story, but I was the fiddle player in Spirit of the Dance, which was the Irish dance show, very similar to Riverdance and Lord of the Dance, and I traveled around the world with that show.

Simon Painter:

The chap in charge of it, David King, he was like a very old-fashioned impresario of theater. So he kind of didn’t go by the normal theater rules of how you make shows, and I learned a huge amount from him. Essentially I worked for him for years, traveling around the shows and playing the fiddle. I was in Vegas and Israel and all the way across Europe and Australia and China and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, really bizarre and weird places, often playing… Some nights we’d play 10,000 people a night, others would be like 500. It would be just a smorgasbord of venues.

Simon Painter:

And eventually I ended up in South Africa producing. At the time it was sort of like African Riverdance. I saw this troupe of dancers and they were doing something very similar to Riverdance, but in Africa. So I was like, “This is it. This is the next big thing.” So I ditched the fiddle and I created what was to become the largest dance show in the history of South Africa. I was 23 and I created… I had lots of partners in South Africa and I was very much out of my depth. I didn’t really know what I was doing at all, but I just knew I had a great concept.

Simon Painter:

So I made a poster. David, my boss from Spirit of the Dance, his whole thesis was you make the marketing for the show first. And then if the marketing works, then you make the show. So I made the marketing, everyone loved it, and then I started making the show. It was due to open in about the beginning of January. I was probably 23 years old or something, and I worked on it for about a year. I had lots of partners and it was not easy at all. Africa is a crazy place. Johannesburg was wild, like dangerous and crazy. And we were just doing a deal, there were quite a few well known people involved with it, and we were just in the final stages of rehearsals, there were billboards up on the motorway, the theater was about to open, and I was drinking champagne, toasting my success with my then girlfriend, and the phone went and my investor had died of a heart attack. And that was it. The show never opened.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh my goodness. Unbelievable.

Simon Painter:

So I lost all my money and then it was, we had to go and tell everybody it was off. It was terrible. And then the guy that died, he was quite a good friend. So it was like, it was just this double whammy of like-

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. I can imagine.

Simon Painter:

He died. He was pretty young as well. And it was just chaos, like awfulness. And I was trying to revive it every which way I could and try and find more money, and eventually I just had to fly home with my tail between my legs. But I bumped into the guy that had given me work for all those years on the violin, and he said, “Hey, go and play the fiddle again.” So I’d gone full circle. I ended up on the back of the bus playing the fiddle [inaudible] and randomly through a series of bizarre events, ended up living in Monte Carlo with a show [inaudible] who was part of the show.

Simon Painter:

I did that for quite a few months. I was the poorest person in Monte Carlo, I would say, but it was pretty great place to be. And I bumped into my old boss at the Cafe de Paris and he said he was making a big circus. Would I like to produce it? Because he obviously heard about the craziness in Africa and knew that I was more than just a fiddle player. And so I was dispatched to China to make him a show that was similar to Cirque du Soleil, like an epic scale circus show. And so I did, and I went to China and I chose 50 Chinese acrobats and we built this show, and it opened in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, because he’d just bought a huge theater there, and it was called Le Grand Cirque and it was a giant Cirque du Soleil type show and it was wildly successful.

Simon Painter:

I mean, it was the first thing I’d ever produced. It did really, really well. It was there for the summer season. So it was like, you know, it’s a tourist town, but it used to do 25,000 people a week. So it was a pretty big show in a 3,000 seat theater. Eventually we ended up taking it to the Sydney Opera House in Australia and it was just the right place at the right time.

Simon Painter:

I didn’t own the show. I was an employee. But it was my kind of energy and, I suppose, direction behind it or creation behind it. It was wildly successful in Sydney, and then we expanded. I had five versions of that show running around the world. In London, in Sydney, and we came to Mexico, and all over the world really. And then eventually I just got… The show was making loads of money and I was like, “I should own one of these myself.” And so me and my wife, Kirsty, who you know, of course-

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes, of course. Not very well. Yes.

Simon Painter:

We had enough of Myrtle Beach and traveling around, so we moved to Los Angeles, to start a business really in theater and to do something new. We didn’t realize… We’d been living in South Carolina, so I got here and was like, “Oh my God.” It was so expensive. And then in my first or second month here, the people from the Sydney Opera House phoned me and said… because we did a lot of shows with them, by that point. Every summer we’d go and do a new show. And they said, “We’ve lost our show for the summer. What have you got?” So I said, “I’ve got an ice skating show, a variety show or a magic show.”

Simon Painter:

And they liked the idea of a magic show, so I made The Illusionists, and it was just a poster and that’s how it all started. So we went to Sydney that Christmas with a magic show. The idea was that we were going to contemporize magic much like Cirque du Soleil had contemporized circus. We were going to do the same thing to magic. And it was amazing. I mean, it was incredibly stressful. The idea was that you took seven of the best magicians in the world and you made them into superstars and contemporized them. It had a live band. Everything about it was just amazing.

Simon Painter:

The show was good, but the marketing was amazing, and we sold 41,000 tickets in 10 days. And then I don’t know what happened after that. It just went crazy. We were just really lucky. Magic hadn’t been seen for a long time, much like circus. When Cirque du Soleil came along, circus was almost a dirty word. It was like a dusty tent with sad animals. And Cirque du Soleil completely re-contemporized that whole art form. We did the same to magic on a smaller scale. That was the idea. I mean, it’s taken, I don’t know, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office. It’s the highest grossing show in the history of Broadway, that’s not a musical. Did $3.2 million in a week. So it’s had huge successes.

Nicky Mondellini:

That’s wonderful. Yes. Yes.

Simon Painter:

So that’s how it happened, by complete happenstance, that we got into this position. I knew nothing about magic.

Nicky Mondellini:

My goodness.

Simon Painter:

So that’s the very long-winded, roller coaster journey of how I went from an unemployed fiddle player to owning a massive magic show.

Nicky Mondellini:

And that, Simon, totally speaks about you, who you are as a person. You were thrown into the ring, you had to overcome a lot of adversity. I mean, anybody after what happened in South Africa would’ve said, “Oh, you know, I’ve had enough. I’m never going to try to produce any show ever again because of all of what happened.” But actually, I mean, it was just circumstances. Everything was ready and set and it’s just about the tragedy of the death of the investor. But you had set up everything, you had done all of the work, right?

Simon Painter:

Yeah. I mean, this has happened multiple times. So that was one particular disaster, but I had others where, I mean, this happened. If I look back through my career, so many times we’ve been taken out by things that are beyond our control. So I set up a show in Florida, a version of La Grand Cirque. I raised all the money. I put the tent up. And it was the year… The day we opened, it was the Gulf Water oil accident, exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, and so basically the tourism dropped by 95% and the show was over. I don’t know if you remember a volcanic event happened in Iceland and it meant that no one could fly in Europe.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes, that’s right. Yes.

Simon Painter:

So we’ve been taken out by oil slicks, hurricanes, ash clouds, death of investors, snowstorms in New York-

Nicky Mondellini:

And the pandemic.

Simon Painter:

I mean, it’s a very risky business from that. People don’t really realize those external forces. Like terrorism. I mean, I did a big show in London and it was during the Paris terrorist attacks. Things happen. So it’s a crazy business. You got to expect some unforeseen things to happen and it’s more regular than people will imagine, I think.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely. Oh my goodness. Yes. There’s so much to overcome. And you learn so much from all of that. For example, what has been one of the craziest things that has happened during the shows that you’ve had to just fix any way you can and go on? Because of course with all the variety of shows, of the acts that you have, you know, escape artists, and you have arrows shooting across the stage, and audience participation and everything. So what is one of the craziest things that has happened?

Simon Painter:

I mean, all sorts of things. My dress rehearsal for my first ever show, the guy fell off the top of the Wheel of Death during the rehearsal-

Nicky Mondellini:

You got to be kidding me.

Simon Painter:

… and broke everything. So that happened during the dress rehearsal. People have been shot with arrows. People have had some pretty crazy accidents. Yeah. I mean, we do two things, really, we do magic and circus, but there’s lots of crazy stunts. And we’ve definitely seen our fair share of… I’ve been sitting in the ER visitors’ room more times than I’d like to remember, to be honest. So yes, it does happen.

Nicky Mondellini:

I can believe that. Yes. And so what do you do? I mean, people have bought their tickets. The show has to go on. Do you end up doing like somebody else, tell them to extend their act, or… Because of course, if that performer can’t do it anymore, if they’re in the ER…

Simon Painter:

Yeah. But look, the show always goes on somehow. I mean, it always amazes me… Shows are always very stressful putting them on, especially the opening of them, but somehow they always happen. And sometimes you got a really amazing performer and he’s out, and it could be anything. He might just have the flu and he’s out. Oh my God, how are we going to do it? And somehow it always does happen. So, the show must go on type thing. I just think that mentality is just what it is and everyone just gets on with it. And so, yes, that’s very much front and center.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely. And Simon, I know now you’ve partnered up with Cirque du Soleil, so how is that now? How has that changed the production side of it, or the marketing, or everything with The Illusionists and stuff?

Simon Painter:

Well, so we sold our company to Cirque about two and a half, three years ago. And so it was an opportunity to kind of do what we do with a bit of a wider footprint. So that’s how it’s going to change [inaudible]. To be honest, the plan has not really come together yet because of the pandemic. We were just waiting to roll out this thing and then the pandemic hit. So it’s been a bit crazy. But we’ve got tons of stuff in the plans for the next six months to a year. So it’s quite exciting what’s on the cards.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, that’s amazing. And will you be going to Mexico again? Because you’re always so well received in Mexico City, I can attest to that.

Simon Painter:

I really hope so. I mean, it’s such an amazing market. We’ve had a huge amount of response, partially to do with OCESA being amazing hosts when we come. But yeah, it’s a great audience. I think Mexico City, I call it the most underrated city in the world. I just think that every American should go and visit Mexico City, because I think it’s one of those things that Americans don’t realize just what an amazing city they have at their doorstep. You know, it’s so close and it’s so vibrant and cultural, and there’s so many incredible things to see. So it’s one of our favorite places to come.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, for sure. Yes. Yes, it does have a very, very wonderful cultural variety and a lot to offer. So yeah. I mean, I know people always love to see The Illusionists when you go there. But let’s now talk about something else that… When people go to your shows, of course, apart from having that amazing experience of seeing unbelievable things happen, what do you want people to take away from the shows or that they have an impression of?

Simon Painter:

Look, the way I produce shows is that they’re entertainment pieces. So that the whole reality of these things are that they are entertainment first. So therefore I don’t produce things that are really meant to be telling a story or changing people’s lives. I produce shows for people to come and have a good night out. That’s what I enjoy doing. So whether it be magic or circus or music or whatever we are doing, it is basically a spectacle of entertainment. That’s what it is. You’re there to see the craziest humans do the craziest things. You should laugh, you should be amazed, you should cry, you should have all those kind of emotions, but for me, it’s entertainment first. So it’s about putting amazing entertainers on stage.

Nicky Mondellini:

Definitely. And it’s also about having the opportunity to have all of those emotions at once, because it’s thrilling to see the dangerous acts and you have very funny things happening as well with magicians, with certain acts that you have, so it’s all of very big emotions that come out there, so it’s just exhilarating to witness one of these shows and be there, and if you get the chance to be on stage and participate with one of the magicians, it’s even a lot more fun, it’s an added level of fun and just joy to be there. Definitely. Anyway, now let’s talk about another show that you’re producing, and I don’t know if you can talk about it now, but something that is themed with Game of Thrones, is that something in the making?

Simon :

It is in the making. Yeah, I can’t say too much about it, but I mean, it was in the press, so we can say a little bit, but myself and my partners are producing a live version of Game of Thrones, it’s a prequel and it’s really early in development, so there’s not an awful lot to say about it, but we are working right now with an amazing director and writer in London, based on material from George. And yeah, it’s on the cards and hopefully it will happen at some point in the next couple of years or so.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh my goodness. And well, of course, everyone will be hoping to see flying dragons and the whole thing there if possible, but I’m sure you’ll come up with amazing things like those two amazing elephants that are in Circus 1903, it’s just, wow, very impressive.

Simon :

It’s a super exciting world. And he’s an amazing writer and world builder, so we’re super excited about where that goes.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh yes. Well, hopefully we can have you on again for another interview when everything is ready to go, so you can tell us more about that.

Simon :

Definitely.

Nicky Mondellini:

Good. So anyway, of course you’ve mentioned [Kirsty], your wife and that she’s an amazing dancer and choreographer and has been a part of the show, and would you want your kids to also follow in your footsteps or be part of the business in some way?

Simon :

Maybe. I mean, it’s definitely pretty volatile. So I mean, I always think about where we live right now and all the people that live around us and myself and Kirsty don’t have a degree to rub together, we have no qualifications whatsoever, we both left school and I was a violin player, she was a dancer. So, I mean, it’s not much of a backup plan, is it? So I think, as parents, you probably want a bit more stability, but we’ve both been really lucky following the things that we really love, and I love making shows, she loves dancing and creating shows, and so it’s been incredible and my kids are really musical, they’re really into singing and playing the violin and playing piano and playing drums, they’re very musical.

Simon :

I mean, I think, I had a real passion for it, and so did Kirsty. So she grew up wanting to dance, she said when she was eight, she used to go and practice dancing in her bedroom for hours on end, and I was the same, I was in hundreds of bands and orchestras and I was always playing music and always organizing the events and doing the bits that were behind the scenes and trying to sell tickets and do all that bit. So it was always the thing that I love doing. So I think if they love doing it, then yeah, I’d definitely encourage them to do it, if they don’t love doing it, then it’s not for them, but bit early to tell.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. Yes. But I don’t know. I can see it, knowing your beautiful kids. Yes. I can definitely see how they might be going into it, and of course, it’s so alluring and so wonderful to be in that world and watching all these amazing acts, how can you not be, or not want to be part of it? It’s just amazing. So watch out.

Simon :

Definitely. Yeah.

Nicky Mondellini:

I think that, yes. Simon, what can you recommend, or just a bit of advice that you can give to young producers who maybe are a little bit afraid of taking that big step in heading in the right direction of a goal that they have, but that they might just not know exactly how to go about it?

Simon :

Well, look, I think with show business, it applies to anything, whether you want to be a dancer or you want to be a producer or a director, there’s two sides to it, you have to be good creatively and you have to make sure that you are making money, and that’s basically the balance, it’s the show and the business, there’s literally two sides to the coin. And whether you are a dancer, and the real goal is, how do I make someone money? That’s got to be forefront of it, how can I add value to something that’s going to make me valuable? And as someone wanting to be a producer, I think that, first and foremost, it’s really easy to say, “follow your dreams and make something creatively”, but I always think that the first thing to do is try and find a way of turning your dream into some kind of financial reality, try and find a way that it pays for itself.

Simon :

Don’t be betting the whole house on the next thing, you want to have as many people invested in you as possible. And so try and make it work financially, whatever it may be, whether you find an investor, or a partner, or a theater or a collaborator, or whether you’re just making it so cheaply that it’s not a big risk, and people talk about risk taking and they say, “oh, you’ve taken so many risks”, and we have taken loads of risks, but the reality of it is, is that, we did it in a way that always made sure that we were likely to succeed financially, and I think so many things I see from young people, they’re so unlikely to succeed, they never get past a very early point, you’ve got to try and get that business side of it working and it should work on the back of a napkin.

Simon :

It should make sense. Nothing is too good to be true. It should be like, “okay, this is a great idea, if it sells 97% of the tickets we’re going to break even” it should be like, “okay, so if it sells 50% of the tickets, in a small room, we should make some money from it.” So I think being financially realistic is actually not talked about a lot and it’s actually super important, just having a goal that is actually likely to succeed and not betting the farm on some wild idea, and it might be an amazing idea, but some ideas need a lot of money, a lot of time, go for ones that are actually likely to get your foot on the ladder and get some success underneath you.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, definitely, creative entrepreneurs, it does happen a lot. I mean, you’re right, I’ve seen it as well with many people that do have great ideas, but I think some of the things that you said, like your boss early on said, “create all the marketing first”, that is one of the things that creative minds or creative people don’t really think about that much, they think, “okay, now we’ve done the whole production, now we have the whole concept and everything. Yeah, we’ll just do a little bit of marketing and that’ll be it”, but sometimes it’s, no, I mean, it has to be just as much of an effort put into that as it is into designing and producing and doing the whole thing.

Simon :

Well, I’d say it’s even more important. So, ultimately, I had this discussion a lot with people, you can create amazing art that no one sees, or you can create art that people do see, and there’s time in your life, especially when you’re young to do the bit like the passion project, that’s going to be the thing that you really don’t care if it makes money or not, you can do that when you’ve got a bit of stability behind you, but the biggest thing is that, producing is a really tough game and you make a lot of mistakes along the way, we probably produced a hundred shows over the last 20 years, because every version of The Illusionist is basically a different show, we’ve had dozens of circuses, all sorts of offshoots of things and every single show you get a little bit better at doing it.

Simon :

And so the experience really matters, the experience of putting these shows on, selling tickets, the PR, the marketing, the rehearsals, the budget, everything to do with the show. So you’ve got to get a few under your belt, you’re not going to have the 50 million dollar idea on your first one, I don’t know anybody that produced, Phantom of the Opera on their first go, maybe it’s happened, but normally it happens because someone’s done a ton of stuff before it, and then they were in the right place, at the right time to capitalize on the one they were successful on, and so you’ve got to get some wins on the sheet and so just doing it is important, and so when I go back to it being financially successful, that matters, like selling, I wish it didn’t, but basically, having things that make other people money, shows that make money are important, even if it just breaks even, or makes a little bit of money.

Simon :

What it can’t be is a huge financial disaster, because no one’s ever going to work with you again, it has to be financially responsible. And so you’ve got to just start off and get the wins and try a lot of different things, I always think that it’s a game, I equate it to baseball. So it’s about hitting singles and doubles and then occasionally hitting a home run, and you never really know when the home run is coming, but for God’s sake, don’t strike out.

Simon :

You’re knocking [inaudible], you’re trying an idea, you’re not losing too much money, you’re trying another idea, maybe you win a bit, then you lose a bit, then you win a bit and none of is retirement money, but they’re all experienced, then just when you’re not least expecting it, you whack one out the park and it makes a ton of money and the show’s amazing, and then it’s creatively successful and it does take money to make shows creatively successful, having rehearsals and all the things that go along with it. So, it’s quite important that people put that first, as much as that is not what people want to hear, it’s the important bit

Nicky Mondellini:

Because it does take work, it takes a lot of work to do that and a lot of planning and knowing how to find the right people to believe in you, in your project and your dream and invest into it.

Simon :

Completely.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah. And let’s talk about now how you find all the magicians, the performers and everyone, because of course, you do a lot of traveling, not only to put on the shows, but also you’re scouting more people to bring into the shows. So, how do you find all of these amazing performers?

Simon :

Well, with the magicians, they kind of find us to be honest, because there’s not that many of them. So if you look at the number of world class magicians that are out there that are really good on stage, and I’m not talking about people that are great at sleight of hand, that can come into a restaurant and dazzle you, there’s lots of those, but people who can actually work on stage at an audience of a thousand people and above, there’s not that many, there’s maybe, my guess in the entire world, under 50. So it’s a pretty small talent pool. Maybe there’s a few more that we don’t know about. So you pretty much know where they are and what they do, and there are a few up and coming ones that slip through the cracks.

Simon :

So we pretty much know them, we are always shocked when we see one we don’t know. So, occasionally there is one, but we don’t know, or there’s someone who’s on a smaller level and they break out, because they’ve done something viral or maybe they’ve been on America’s Got Talent, occasionally you find one, but it’s a very small talent show. So for magic, it’s pretty easy, for circus, it’s a much wider pool. So, I used to be the guy that went and did it, I flew to China and went village to village, looking for people that could… We went from school to school, they had acrobatic schools and acrobats come from schools, they come from gyms, they come from sports teams, they come from circus families, so they come from a pretty wide array of people, but we are constantly searching for what that next thing is, that’s how that works.

Nicky Mondellini:

Wow. And then once you have all of the performers, how do you come up with a concept to sort of, because I heard you say in an interview that you have all of these amazing acts, but that you have to have a theme that unites all of them under one path, like one theme, how do you come up with that?

Simon :

The theme comes first. So, I’m producing a new show in Vegas right now, which I can’t tell you exactly what it is, but basically the theme comes first and then you find the performers to fit into that theme. So we produce things, then we come up with an idea, we think it’s going to make a load of money, we make the marketing, we make the posters, we create the assets around the show very early on, and we really rigorously test those, and then, after we’ve tested it and we’ve got it very far, and we’re pretty confident that the show is going to be something that people want to do, we then cast the show. So we do it in reverse.

Nicky Mondellini:

Got it.

Simon :

So we don’t really start with the acts, we end with the acts.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah, of course. Yeah. That seems a much more logical way to go around it for sure. Simon, is there anything else that you’d want to talk about or another bit of advice for people that definitely want to go into production, or directing?

Simon :

Yeah. I mean, look, I think, always it’s, follow your dreams. I actually don’t think it’s about following your dreams, I just think it’s about doing it. I think that, I don’t know anybody that’s successful that hasn’t worked 18 hour days, I just don’t know anyone, and so, it’s great to dream, but it’s better to do, and so just being really active and really hungry is the way to do it and not expecting the outcomes to be great all the time, but just doing it.

Simon :

The people that we like working with are the ones that have done a lot of stuff, they’ve just done so many shows and then once that’s happened, you can really lean on them, that’s my advice. Unfortunately, there’s not a shortcut, you just got to work bloody hard, but I’m sure that’s the same in a lot of industries, but I’d say even more so in entertainment, because it’s not like you can point to a degree, or a bit of paper, or diploma and say, “look, I’ve achieved this” it’s like the only thing people care about is the last thing that you did. Was it successful? Did it make money? Did people like it?

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes.

Simon :

That is unfortunately the business we’re in.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes. We’re only as famous as our last production, as our last show or TV or movie thing. Yeah, for sure. So we have to keep improving and just practicing and improving ourselves and seeing how else we can grow, and that’s of course, true of everything in show business, but you have certainly proved that, with all the shows, and they’re amazing. How can people find out? Of course, you do great marketing, so I’m sure people already know where they are, I mean, you’re in the biggest venues in every city, but now, after the pandemic, I’m sure that things have changed a little bit, and I don’t know if you are, again, many theaters, they have every other row canceled out, like at the movie house, every two seats, there’s two in the middle that they don’t sell for social distancing. So, how are those things working out for you now?

Simon :

Well, in Vegas it’s a hundred percent capacity.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh it is already.

Simon :

It’s mask, but a hundred percent capacity. Look, I just don’t think, it’s very tough, until the world is normal again, live entertainment is the last thing. You’ll get on a flight, but I’m not sure you go to a theater. So we’re obviously hoping this thing is over sooner rather than later, but people are coming out and seeing shows, which is great. Performers are back on stage, which is the biggest thing, because it’s just been so tough for everybody.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yeah.

Simon :

So look, I mean, we’re optimistic, but it has to go away. I mean, I keep on saying to people like, it’s not going to be completely normal until people like my mom are comfortable going to the theater, and even people that have vaccinated, some of them are not comfortable going to the theater, and I understand it, it’s tough, but I think we’re almost at the point now with these vaccines and things that, your chances of a bad outcome are pretty low. So, it’s getting to the point now that it’s a risk worth taking, so hopefully you’ll be there soon in Mexico City and we can be back performing.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes, absolutely. Or you’ll come to Houston again and I’ll be happy to see you [crosstalk]

Simon :

Amazing.

Nicky Mondellini:

Yes. Wonderful. Simon, well, thank you again so much for giving me some of your time and I’m sure you have lots of other rehearsals and things to get to, but hopefully you’ll have a little rest over the weekend. Anyway, people will follow you on Instagram or Twitter, or go to the website to find out about [inaudible]

Simon :

Yeah. I actually have no social media myself. So I do no publicity for my own things, which is a decision I took 20 years ago. I don’t even know how Instagram works, but my company is very good at it. So certainly under Cirque du Soleil, there’s a lot of information about where our shows are going next. So yes, there’s not much on the website yet because for our stuff, because although I have, America’s Got Talent, the live show opening in Vegas next week, which is quite exciting.

Nicky Mondellini:

Oh, wonderful.

Simon :

And then in spring we have another new show, hopefully opening in Las Vegas and then I’ve got Circus 1903 in London, this Christmas, and then next year, hopefully, will be busy again and we’ll be back on the road.

Nicky Mondellini:

Wonderful. Well, that all sounds amazing. And as always, you keep working at it, you keep creating all of these shows and just making them greater. So best of luck with all of the productions, and we’ll be definitely following closely to see which one we can catch, wherever we are, since you’re going a lot all over the world, but congratulations on all the success and I wish you definitely all the best with all of it, so thank you again.

Simon :

Thanks so much.